Dana Massey Asks Why Not? Mystery MMOs
Non-violent, adventure and mystery games have fallen on hard times. MMOs could be their salvation. Dana lays out his theory for a mystery driven, non-violent MMO.
The rise and fall of adventure games is one of the great mysteries of video game history. Myst sales figure rival any blockbuster, proving there is a market, but no one seems quite sure who that market is. Since then, The Sims has claimed the crown of non-violent champion. Again, copies of this franchise sell faster than The Bible, but despite this, the non-violent game market has never taken off.
In MMOs, there have been three notable attempts. EA figured they could cash in with The Sims Online. Unfortunately, they forgot to make a game that Sims fans actually liked, and that blight was more recently shut down. SEED was a futuristic sci-fi society builder, but holds one of the fastest launch to shutdown records ever. Only A Tale in the Desert has met any success, but while it no doubt keeps creator Andrew Tepper clothed and fed, it likely will never help him buy a helicopter.
Despite these three tales of woe, I ask today why there is not a mystery, non-violent MMO?
advertisement The Sims Online no doubt set non-violent MMOs back by a decade, at least. If the biggest fish in the pond can fail, anyone can, right? And if that’s not enough, URU Live (the Myst MMO) was also DOA.
The problem is, both tried to adapt a good single player idea for the online market. Neither made a game that truly captured the benefits of being an MMO.
MMOs are online, they’re social and they’re competitive. A mystery/adventure MMO could benefit from all these things and maybe, just maybe, it’s online that this strangely dead genre can find a second chance.
Combat has become a crutch. It’s an accepted, traditional MMO convention and it’s become the core of every game from super heroes to space monsters. Without it, a game would be forced to invent mechanics that might make the genre as a whole far more compelling.
What’s more, since no one has made a truly successful adventure game in a few years, maybe, just maybe tradition in that genre can be tossed out as well. Tradition is a powerful force for gaming executives and players. There are fantasy games, because fantasy games sell. With the passage of time, perhaps, someone, somewhere would be open to a new way to do something very old.
So how would a mystery/adventure MMO work, anyway, you ask?
;)
It's always Miss Scarlet!
Think of Clue. Not literally the board game, but a scenario like it. It’s a simple murder mystery that six people can play in under an hour. They can work together and share information, or deceive and mislead. It’s a perfect social bubble played around the kitchen table.
It’s a real world instance.
In my dream mystery/adventure MMO, players would be brought into instances, and instead of shooting each other in the face as most games require, they would be out to solve a crime, mystery or riddle.
The characters would need to talk to NPCs, gather information, look for clues and most importantly, stay one step a head of the other investigators as they solved the crime.
These scenarios could come in all forms. From simple mysteries that take 30 minutes to get through, to big, epic (dare I say, raid sized) ones that can last a few hours. They would match wits, and get players to genuinely read dialogue, look for clues and properly navigate chat trees to find the information they need.
Eventually, the mystery would be solved, and a winner declared.
On a larger scale, the game could also have meta mysteries. These would be the events of the mystery MMO. No game could live off these alone, especially since by its very nature only one person could win, but in a world with lots of content to consume, having a larger theme to try and sort out each month would be a spectacular challenge for the hardcore.
Now, obviously, walkthroughs and the Internet could make this kind of game tough. Yes, people would undoubtedly be able to cheat and ruin the game for others. This is especially true in a competitive situation.
There are solutions though. For one, just because one person in your instance has solved the crime, it shouldn’t necessarily preclude the other players from going through to the end for bonus points, if they like. The race against the clock is a nice element, but when someone is unnaturally fast because they’ve just rolled their 8th character, it would get annoying.
;)
It's a mystery!
The fact is, in most MMOs, a great number of players play their own way anyway. How often does the average player know exactly what’s going to happen in the next quest? It doesn’t matter that hundreds of players have done it before, it’s usually a surprise unless they themselves go out of their way to get the answers in advance.
No doubt, in a game where the answers meant a lot more, this would be more of an issue. And the only real defense against this is clever design.
For example, in each scenario, the designers would need to craft them with great care to ensure that there is more than one route to success. This would increase replayability. Sure, it might be on the web that if you walk to the third room on the left, talk to the Butler, look behind the copy of The Great Gatsby and then clap four times, the cellar door flies open and a photo of the killer falls out. Yes, you can look that up and ruin your day, but a well designed scenario would have a couple ways to solve the crime and that kind of discovery would be key to the kind of player attracted to a mystery game.
Look at Clue. That game is well designed so that there is not always one right answer. A company that could develop several kinds of games, as well as more directed experiences, might well have a gold mine on its hands.
There are sea of gamers out there. They have nothing to amuse them these days. As a more casual MMO, a mystery game would be a great chance to step in and really capture that under served market. I don’t believe that every adventure gamer ceased to exist in the early part of the decade. They’re out there and they all still have a copy of Myst.
So, as unlikely as it seems, I ask again: Why not make a mystery/adventure MMO?
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Each Thursday, he asks the question "Why Not?" about some element of MMOs.
i respect you dude, i really do...but this article is beyond stupid.
Mystery MMO...are you serious? ALL of the content needs to be hand crafted for a start and so far i have seen pretty lackluster stuff by devs and player made content is still underdeveloped. Your point about walkthroughs and guides basically points out the one of the biggest flaws with this style of game.
You did however point out the stupid tradition of combat in MMO's, I think we need to ditch that tradition soon. When did MMO's (originally online simulations of an avatars life) ditch all the other aspects of life and just end up simulating combat?
Oh and i'd say the closest thing to a mystery online game that i have seen is The Ship and it is great fun to play. Sure it involves combat but it mixes it with mystery, suspense and a whole lot of fun moments.
Clue is a pretty good example of a mystery mechanic that doesn't require hand crafting... that was the core idea.
The walkthrough thing is tough, I agree though.
Clue is a pretty good example of a mystery mechanic that doesn't require hand crafting... that was the core idea.
The walkthrough thing is tough, I agree though.
tell you what, why have a game devoted to the mystery genre. Why not incorperate mystery elements into current and future MMO's? I've seen lots of lore that could easily be turned into a mystery quest/event. Also i think it could boost exploring a bit more (searching for clues), something i find fun in many games
tell you what, why have a game devoted to the mystery genre. Why not incorperate mystery elements into current and future MMO's? I've seen lots of lore that could easily be turned into a mystery quest/event. Also i think it could boost exploring a bit more (searching for clues), something i find fun in many games
I agree, and I think I touched on that at one point. Basically, niche games in my opinion are a big part of evolution. Without combat, someone could do a really, really good mystery game. Then more mainstream MMOs might pick up the good parts. ;)
I agree that combat is used far too much as a medium of entertainment in games these days - nearly every MMO released in the last five years has been near completely combat oriented, and that's a little sad.
If developers looked at ways of making a player avoid combat, or thinking before they initiate contact with a hostile NPC, I think we would see more intelligent players, and possibly, more robust, intriguing games.
As far as good examples of games that don't have pure combat in them, look at Abe's Odyssey and Abe's Exxodus. They were fantastic, action-ey puzzle platformers, where you had to make sure each following guy had their wits about them, and did exactly what you did, in order to get past enemies.
Your one pure "offensive" ability was to slap, which was meant to be used on friendly guys who were high on happy gas.
Your actual ability to kill enemies was to "chant" and take them over - which meant you could wander past them, or control enemy units... it was a very clever, fantastic game.
Then they went and, dare I say, ruined it with Munch's Odyssey - which enabled control of WTFHAX walker mechs, which had guns and could squish enemies... (although, this said, I only played the demo, where I guess, this would be considered cool - maybe there is more to the game, but I was disappointed with this straight off... *shrugs*)
Anyway, yes, I would probably enjoy a game where you were a mystery solver, but hell, I'd enjoy a game that was just a little less combat oriented...
Clue is a pretty good example of a mystery mechanic that doesn't require hand crafting... that was the core idea.
The walkthrough thing is tough, I agree though.
Why not make the MMO yourself to show everyone? Why not!
I think a Clue Online or a Sherlock Holmes Online would be pretty cool and different. I just wouldn't want to have to play Tetris to find clues, that would suck.
If done right, this IP could provide the foundation for a great mystery based MMO.
It's an interesting concept. Not one that I personally would be interested in (I don't care for mysteries and puzzles), but done right, it definitely has some potential.
If only it could happen. Back in 1978 I got my first computer ( A TRS-80). Playing adventure games was really fun. I remember the golden age of those games. Companies such as Infocom had great text games. Then Sierra came out with "Mystery House" that had graphics. They were crude but back then it was great.
I was in on the beta of "URU" It did fail however. It was an online adventure game. I also was in the beta of "Seed" It failed also.
Oh well maybe one day someone will come up with one that works.
However I think that most of the online gamers want fighting so I am not holding my breath.
A lot of people think adventure games are dead. There have been some however that have done well recently, In fact they are releasing "The curse of Monkey Island" again. It is thought of as one of the best adventure games ever.
This is the first of the "why not" series that I really like.
It would be tough as hell to pull off, but if it could be done well it could prove to be a fantastic concept and provide a unique experience.
I'd love to have some set up where a group of players set up a murder mystery situation and another group trys to solve it.
And just for the record, my name would be "The hardly boys" and I'd go around talking about my raging clues.
Well...your article intrigued me immensely and I starting drooling thinking about a game like this. However, what if you could make it like...Neverwinter Nights (or the second)? Or, as another example, City of Heroes/Villains with custom user content? It would make players less likely to look up walkthroughs if there really aren't any for the mysteries!
I like this idea, but I always am more attracted to open world games. Although I do like switching it up a bit, even a new approach at combat is nice it's basicly all skill bar stuff.
A good idea for a mystery mmo open world, would be 2 things, you could have a robber/detective style where people can be cops or robbers, pretty stereotypical but I don't think thats been explored in an mmo, say your playin in a google maps rendering of new york, you can knock over banks, do hitman missions and stuff like that. Although for detectives you figure it would devolve to jsut campin random banks hoping to cook some fools, but if you had to make it real life, say instead of dissapearing when you log out, you need a hide out or something? A safe house, maybe you could track down their safe houses and bust em when their offline, say you have apartments and stuff, but actually be able to go in them? I know this would be destructive on the system but not if you load areas by individual chuncks. So say a guy commits a bank robbery, you hunt around for finger prints hair samples blood samples, see if their on file maybe if they get caught or people can compile data on some sort of user data base on convicted fellons and their names or people and their dna so you can be out on the lookout for him hunt him down ect . Maybe even the shoes they wore, have some kind of glasses that highlight the specific print, tosses realism but would make it easier. Getaway cars yaddayadda
(Yes balance issues and other wholes in this idea would be maddening) But theres lots of room to get creative, thats what the industry is about, and i'd definately like to see some crazy inovation not nessisarily the idea i stated but theirs lots of stuff you could do and i'd like to see something different as well. .
So why did Uru and The Sims fail? I never got a chance to play them so I don't know.
Clue is an interesting model. If I remember correctly, the actual solution is just three random cards that are selected before the game begins. And when you play, you are in a group, where you compete against each other but also need each other--because isn't the mechanic that you ask questions of one player each turn about their cards? And then there's the board, I think you need to be in a particular room to ask about it, or something. The board is like an instance! And there's user-generated content! And it's different every time!
Vanguard has Diplomacy. I was quite amazed at how into Diplomacy I got, even though the "combat" is a card game. It still had gear, looting, rare drops, quests, experience gains, levels, tougher and tougher NPCs. It had everything but instances, and in theory there could be a Diplomacy instance. But Diplomacy made me realize that I didn't need combat from my MMOs (although I apparently still need gear, rare drops, quests, etc, etc.--rewards, in other words).
First of all, immagine Clue as it is as an MMO. Players would soon be calling it a new kind of grind. Who play's Clue on and on? My point is that even if you expand it, you still have a limited experience repeating, just as current MMOs have a limited experience repeating (called the grind).
So, as others have mentioned, why not incorporate it into a modern MMO, and expand that MMO experience? As a lover of real life mysteries of history, as well as of literature, I have often wondered why there isn't the strange and the mysterious, the unexplained, in my MMOs. There could be little ones and big ones, and some so big that it rocks your socks. And they don't have to be replayable, nor instanced, they can just be for players to find.
Has it been done before? Actually yes, I believe so. A very, very deep mystery of the ultimate kind.
wow I totally forgot about Myst. Whatever happened to those type of games ?
As far as making that mystery genre into an MMO, im all for it. I agree MMO's have focused too often on combat. I fear though that developers would rather focus on blood and guts as its probably a larger market than cerebal type content.
I would love to see an MMO where you have the both playstyles but reward the patient player for solving the mystery as opposed to just blowing Colonel Mustard's head off.
I'd love to see mysteries added into content of mmos. Instead of kill 10 bugs,, I'd rather have one long epic quest that I had to figure out the answers to step by step.
Or large dungeons would have quest/mysteries for epic encounters or side encounters with multiple outcomes. I think it really comes down to companies not wanting to spend the money and having a lack of really good writers.
Hell, remember the old days of SRPGs that had riddles in them you needed to answer to progress? It's about time MMO's stopped the dumbing down of its playerbase's minds and started challenging them.
I've found a few text based and browser based mystery games that aren't that bad. If someone were to create a mystery MMO, they could use those as inspriation.
Modus Operandi - Modus Operandi is a modern day role-playing game that combines mystery, adventure, and romance with the excitement of an ongoing story based on Morada, a fictional island in the Caribbean! I c&p'ed that blurb from the game's front page. This text-based game is run by Simutronics, of DragonRealms, GemStone and Hero's Journey fame.
Sleuth - Sleuth is an open-ended detective game where you solve mysteries by searching for clues, questioning suspects and interviewing witnesses. (got this description from google.)
If you like mysteries, Sleuth is pretty good game. It is ugly, but that's just my opinion. Modus Operandi, seems to be OK. I'm not sure how many players it has online at any given time, but I know the numbers are not as high as the 300-500 players that DragonRealms and Gemstone have during peek hours. People pay about 15 bucks to play there, so I guess its an OK game.
Anyway, I could see a graphical Mystery MMO. I'm baseing most of this off of Sleuth, which I like.
You'll have your classes: the good cop, the detective, the ex-con turned private investagator, etc.
Then there's skills: fingerprint analysis, fiber id, intimidation, lock picking etc
Quests (cases): Search and Rescue, where you beat up bad guys for whatever reason; Regular Detective work, where you go around town finding clues and pointing fingers; Side jobs where you build up rapport with people so you can get better leads from them, etc
Well, I'm putting too much thought into this. But I can see this happening. I can't see it being a big budget game, but a small niche one.
This type of game would be easy to pull off. First off you would make a clone of GTA4. Only instead of 500,000 anonymous random people walking around, each person in the world would be given a set of traits. Name, where they live, where they work, places they frequent etc. Then have each of those NPC's have a random number of people in the game that they know, are friends with or are related to. You could make it so that the city was maybe twice as big as Liberty City and each time a player logged in they would be dropped down into the precinct as a police officer and everything would be based on rank. You would basically have people solving crimes and the first few levels/ranks would be simple stuff. You're assigned an area and must solve whatever crimes are put on the board when you log in.
After a while you get bumped in pay grade and rank and get to choose vice/homocide whatever and then solve those types of crimes. There are 35000 cops in New York so it could be as massively multiplayer as you want. This particular city would be rife with crime so you would never have to write parking tickets or do parade duty and because the town is now more like Gotham where many many people are turning to crime the city is paying bonuses for cracking a case. Corruption could be a part of the game, but if another player busted you you would have to be bumped down in rank and they would get a bonus/whatever. If you decided to use your gun to kill every bad guy you see, eventually you would lose your job or go to prison and have to start another character. Eventually, after you reached a certain rank as a detective you would retire from the force and be a private detective getting to solve the really cool stuff, get your own office, gear cars. You could make money the driving force because a detective with nightivsion/money to access certian info/money to hire a lower level detective to run surveilence/ anything would be possible.
All the crimes at lower levels would be randomly generated from a list of things that lead to an NPC commiting such and such crime and x amount of evidence was randomly created. Maybe a different, random number of NPC's saw it happen, whatever they wanted they could do. The bigger stuff that only higher level players have access to would be scripted in the macro sense, but every time the facts and evidence would have to be randomly generated. High level stuff might take a ton of money paying a local lab to do CSI type stuff for you or you spend a whole day doing leg work. Making and kjeeping contacts at every level of player would always be a benefit. You could make up a daily newspaper that had random stuff but maybe clues for the high end stuff and the goal of the end game type might be trying to be the detective who solved the biggest cases of the week and getting your picture on the front page.
I agree to some of the post, a out of solve a mystery type of game in terms of NPC interaction will be much better than the current model. However, I am not so certain about entirely focusing on being a mytery game.
Usually in mystery games there are complex interaction and story that takes the player to a grand scheme leading to a storyline climax. However, this mystery are usually just a storyline with maybe some choices that affect the outcome. This means that most player will play it once, and maybe 2-3 more times depend on the player. However, a mystery is really only good before it is solved. Once it is done with, players can get bored, especially in MMORPG. If there are multiple mysteries, it will still yield the same result. Over time the constant mystery solving take its toll as it becomes just another mystery to be solved.
I suppose the above points depend on the game's system. However, I firmly believe that a mystery should be part of the MMORPG experience and not the entire focus. A mystery should pique player's interest in the game's storyline or quest. Making it interesting and captivating, this might actually be the key to step away from the straight forward quest models the MMORPG industry currently adapt.
I would play the shit out of this game. People would start wondering where I was and stuff.
Great idea, i think.... I was thinkng too on this for years, like why not do for exemple the good board game "Cluedo" in MMO. Im realy happy that Warcraft 3 guys made a mod for that. However its still not MMO and not in adventure style. If u have to choose between a completely new MMO and a Minigame i vote for Minigame.
MMO Minigame:
I think if u do some inside house (evry MMO has houses inside game) action, and faction choice in the beggininng of the minigame (players could choose to be a "murderer" or an "innocent"). However they only can do 1 murder, but they can use any kind of things that the MMO have (magic, poison, sword,...), and can use anything inside house to kill and hide the body. This way innocent players have to find the crime and have to solve who did it, but the murderer have still his/her presence so he can defend his/herself with making false clues, if they find the murderer, players can decide what to win with it (exp, items...ect.), those they can use outside in main world.... U can even make this turn based or random, so if som1 choosed to be murderer first he can be the innocent next turn (or 2 murderers in game so it can be that 1 of them will be the 1 who dies....- just think about it -).
- consumes less time to make maps, and less money too
- More costumers (those players will play it too, who is registered for fighting game)
- Unique, guaranteed project dnt fails.... and if it is u dnt have to drop the whole game out of the window.
- U dnt have to figure out mysteries, becouse players will do it in their own ways of ideas.... (making mysteries more funny then only solving it)
MMO Game:
- Consumes lots of time to make maps, and money too
- Less costumers (U will have players only who want to play clues game, and as u guys said there is more fighting than non-fighting MMO)
- can be unique, but if project fails.... whole game can be thrown to bin.
So i think ur idea is great, but u have to think out what will be the most liked Non-fight effect u want to put inside ur idea. and have to think its marketing.....
Although it is plenty violent, I've been under the impression that Funcom's The Secret World will be our adventure/mystery/puzzle MMO.
I dont get it. Why would such a game be an MMO to begin with instead of a single player game? I didnt see any elements in the game that would be suitable for an MMO environment.
The point of an MMO is for people to interact with each other, either against each other or cooperate against an AI. A mystery MMO would need minimal such interaction and would hence be pointless as an MMO.
Also, most games, cater to the young male audience (young being anywhere from 15-35) and that audience likes, fictional, violence so a non-violent MMO would not cater to the majority of the audience. Possibly would it appeal to the female audience but isnt there already such an MMO, Sim something? Where you just live and do nothing special. Sounds pretty boring to me. *shrug*
RTFA. The Sims Online died horribly in flames.
Also, please don't paint people with that brush of yours - it's a mite wide. 15-35 males may play MMOGs with violence, but then, so does a large proportion of females. This is well documented in various studies. And similarly, I for one (at 31) would definitely play a mystery MMO - likely together with my wife, who also loves the adventure/mystery genre. It just remains to be seen if it can be done right.
Some of the ideas that have come up in this thread sound promising (NYPD Online, as told above being the prime example IMO), and generating content can be done, if you know your coding and your software design, and have a few bright ideas. A Clue/Cluedo style setup, where the elements of the mystery are generated on the fly by the game from a number of prefab pieces would work quite well. Clue has IIRC 6 murder weapons, six suspects, and eight or nine murder locations, and it's a rasre thing that the same mystery comes up. Now, instead, have 20-30 different possible weapons, 30 motivations, 50 suspects, and a bunch of pieces of evidence to add into the mix, and a murder mystery can be generated that has a 1-in-20-million chance of ever being seen again. Then add other types of crimes or mysteries to solve. Suddenly, guides are much less useful, and player mystery solving skills become paramount. Cooperatively, you could work as a team on it, some players interrogating suspects and interviewing witnesses, some finding clues at the scene of the crime, some doing lab work, etc. Solving the crime means having the evidence to present a criminal case, or similar, for which the whole team would then get credit.
No violence involved. But lots of thinking and putting pieces together.
True! Indeed for sure.
I agree with you.... in some part... but lets think on other players too to have fun, example: PVP mystery game.... evry1 could have fun, evry1 happy.
How would that work? I am having some trouble reconciling the ideas of (ultimately non-violent) mystery solving with (rather violent) PVP. Give us your thoughts on the matter, I'm curious. :-)
mystery mmo..... the freakin industry cant even make a proper mmorpg what makes you think they can
make something that could prove to be a billion times more challenging such as a mystery? (unless
jjabrams is the story/arc
creator that i would buyD)
Yo u dont know mystery games, books, and so on are all about violence? U try to solve somthing that som1 done... more times violence, than the gardener lost his hat, and cmon lets find it.... Ow dnt tell me u dnt knew this.... so Ultimately non-violence mystery MMO never will happen, if u wish to do realy ultymately non-violence mystery mmo, then u try to draw a line with colour pen on same colour paper.... impossible for u to notice the difference.
What is Puzzle Pirates? Its a free mmorpg but to be honest I didnt play it more than a few minutes. Funny concept, think about it, mmorp games marketed to the brainless, stupid, lazy? Why is there no thinking involved? Maybe because after working all day ya just want to unwind?
RTFA. The Sims Online died horribly in flames.
Also, please don't paint people with that brush of yours - it's a mite wide. 15-35 males may play MMOGs with violence, but then, so does a large proportion of females. This is well documented in various studies. And similarly, I for one (at 31) would definitely play a mystery MMO - likely together with my wife, who also loves the adventure/mystery genre. It just remains to be seen if it can be done right.
I am painting nothing but rather it is a know FACT that the majority (observe the word majority) of people who enjoy fiction with alot of violence are young males. Like the majority of people watching UFC are young males or like the majority watching/enganging in most martial arts are young males.
As for a large proportion of females watching/playing violence themed games/movies all depends on what you mean with large. Majority of female audience watch dramas and romantic movies and that has been statistically shown and comedies are roughly an even mix. So there are differences between gender and age and I dont see anything wrong with that or pointing it out.
So if you want to start a bussiness, any bussiness, you would be wise to target the main audience for that bussiness. For example, advertisting hard core rap to elderly is usually not a good way of selling hard core rap.
I wanted to tell u some forward thinked ideas of this thing: http://warcraft3.filefront.com/file/Cluedo%3B61840
If u have warcraft 3 i assume u to try it..... and u will see how to do rather violent PVP.
Did you go through that "A very, very deepmystery of the utimate kind"? It is nothing even close to an mmorpg. The girl has a nice voice and would like to see her naked but uo and links to uo. Maybe if I played uo all these years it would make sense.
Well, it would be nice to see something like that. And the articles and posters have already listed some of the problems.
To combat problems like walkthroughs etc. it might be possible to create a scenario system that randomly changes elements in it. While my mathematics is rather basic, I can already think couple of principles that could be used to assure randomness. How these random parts can be made to appear as a part of whole would be an interesting problem to solve.
As a cooperative game, it might be easier to design these. You could still have competitive elements outside scenarios, but scenarios themselves would have to be solved as a group. All people would get rewards, perhaps even based on tasks they did inside it. You could even add career/profession/skill elements to promote diverse group dynamics. There could be scoreboards outside that would list best times, highest scores etc, from each scenario.
Those who mentioned implementing such quests in MMORPGs, look for The Secret World and SW:TOR, as both might be able to implement some mystery elements into their storytelling. Both companies have games that have mystery/adventure elements.
U guys wanted my idea, then here it is for less violent PVP game:
Hi just wanted to tell you some real time violent pvp board games:
- chess
- torpedo...
I am realy thinked thru the idea for you, less violent pvp can be, coz those things u dnt see is rather less violent, so i made an example cluedo (3+ players min.) match prepaired for u in less PVP mode (minigame):
- 1st player enter the game
- 2nd player enter the game
- 3rd player enter the game
- 4th player enter the game
For example 2nd player is the mytery creator (randomly): Before match start he has to choose his weapon, motivation, mystery location, and the 1 he wish to kill (if so then where to hide that players body - 4th player if killed, he can watch how others try to solve his/her death) or the 1 who he stole from, 1 to kidnap, 1 who will lost in the house, or become trapped in a secret room (can even do suicide).
Then game start, player 1/2/3(/4) tries to solve what happened, where, who done it, and why... (remember 2nd player is the mystery creator, so he can mislead others), and they go to find the crime, the player...ect.
Meanwhile 4th player (if not dead) tries to escape from room, and tries to make noise with (he can use his / her own ideas to what to do) to help the other players.
- If not the mytery creator wins (means others can solve the mystery or can tell that he is the mystery creator), than players can choose between useful items (max 1/player) and they get certain amount of experiance (experiance is shared, means the mystery creator will have experiance too, but not that much as other players - thus he/she dnt get item).
- If the mystery creator wins (means others cant solve the mystery or cant tell rightly that who is the mystery creator), than he/she can choose 1 item and experiance, and players gain only experiance, but not that much as the mytery creator do.
- Ps.: motivate ppl to play with ur game....
Either you typed too fast, or have horrid typing habit online.
You will never solve any mystery this way. You also miss the point that it is not about taking out violence all together, it is about taking the focus away from combat. To what degree is also a good topic of discussion since we know violence sells games. This is suppose to be discussion about whether or not mytery MMO have potential and why. The author used valid point, but you only offered.. nothing. (Yes, we all know violence sell, but at least we spell violence correctly.)
"Gardener lost his hat"? That is the biggest mystery your imagination allow?
Also, If you try to draw a line with a colour pen on the exact same colour paper you will still be able to notice the difference. Pen are mainly liquid or oil based, but either way the paper will soap up the fluids and becomes darkened. Which actually makes the pen mark visible. Only colours that will actually be impossible to notice the difference is "pure" black and "pure" white, which does not exist to be made into paper nor pen.
Tx for telling me that i spelld violence incorrect, i used to edit it.
For the other thing i talked about ultimately non-violence mystery only, i mean thats impossible to make game like that for millions (neither to hundreds) of players, becouse violence sometimes is inside the mystery.... I only disagree with u in that, that this topic is about just talking that the game like this have future on the market, ppl have to share their ideas, so others can think it thru, and tell their opinion about it. Yes degree, of violence matters, and that was what i said.
Ps.: By the way, i think i posted my idea and ur just playng with others words, and have u posted any idea in ur last post that dnt be told before? i think ur not....
Ps2.: "Also, If you try to draw a line with a colour pen on the exact same colour paper you will still be able to notice the difference. Pen are mainly liquid or oil based, but either way the paper will soap up the fluids and becomes darkened. Which actually makes the pen mark visible."
Yes, agree but red is still red, blue still blue, so nothing realy changes, no painter paint with same colour, coz they dnt see what they workd for.
OMG....I sooooooooooo agree on this! That entire series of games has the story, the intrigue, to make it work. I would immediately be interested in an MMO along those lines.
The combat thing, in my opinion, is just used a lot because of creative laziness in coming up with something else. Not only that, but the younger generation of gamers has KNOWN nothing else other than fighting games of some sort. I would love a game that required wits and outsmarting other players without having to resolve things with a sword. It's not that I don't enjoy combat, but it's all become pretty much the "same ol' same ol'" , you know?
The space genre seems to be the next direction of MMOs, but I would certainly LOVE to see the suspense, mystery, detective type genre make itself an appearance. That is a niche that I , personally, would welcome with great enthusiasm!
I think its a sad reflection on this genre when people cant even begin to comprehend an MMO not centered on combat. It wasnt that long ago when social features were a major part of gameplay. Nowadays the only focus is what kind of combat system will there be, is there raiding, is there pvp, can we solo, is grouping worth it, etc
very sad
any discussion of this sort has to look at Myst Online and why it failed. A basic look at the game dynamic and how it would work is necessary. The quest, or mystery choice system has to be retooled from the commonly accepted implementation in today's games.
Did you go through that "A very, very deepmystery of the utimate kind"? It is nothing even close to an mmorpg. The girl has a nice voice and would like to see her naked but uo and links to uo. Maybe if I played uo all these years it would make sense.
Shreddi, that was a mystery running inside the MMORPG of UO in an onrunning official GM plotline. So I'm confused about your response. Maybe it's due to the deep nature of it? Sure, there's other kinds of mysteries to play, such as puzzles. Is that the only kind that can be acceptable in MMOs? In my mind, puzzles are a single player game option that can also work in MMOs, but that's not where the mystery has to stop.
Agreed.
And I also noticed in this thread that people, for some unknown reason, automatically equate solving a mystery with "puzzles." I don't have any desire to solve "puzzles" (or mini games, as they're often referred to) ala Puzzle Pirates or FreeRealms as part of an MMO, which SHOULD be a social type of game, not a solo "puzzle"solving game. I want to work WITH people to accomplish things....you know....the way MMORPGs USED to be.....
*sigh*
You (not the poster whose comment I quoted above, but the rest of "you") don't honestly think that detectives single-handedly solve cases do you? O.o They don't. It takes a department of people and various other "classes" (imagine playing the part of a serologist or ballistics expert) to solve crimes. You would have to have multiple classes involved in solving the "mysteries," just as it takes multiple class specializations to run an instance and kill mobs.....
I don't think it takes a really TREMENDOUS imagination to consider a game like this. The sad thing is....today's MMORPGs have left many of us lacking the ability to use ANY amount of imagination at all. That's just....sad.
I want my combat but I'd definitely trade the killing rabbits, worms, bears, trees for much of the game aspect for mysteries.
In other words, I would like some endgame group pvp conflict like daoc, but I'd love to add in a ot the old Irish mysteries or some sherlock holmes elements as well.
Puzzles, riddles, even general knowledge depending on the genre would be great. Can you imagine if you could not start the next step of the quest unless you actually knew what a "Filiadh" was? (spelling might be off)
I've also been wanting that group mechanic as well. I believe DDO has reincorporated this. You need a master lockpicker in order to open the door but you also need someone with enough swimming skill to pull the lever in the pool in the next room. Only problem is Soloer's wouldn't go for this type of mechanic and companies aren't really willing to try new things that aren't just facelifts of old designs.
Oh.. I also think that most of the people who go into MMO's lack imagination or problem solving skills already.... which is why most content is step 1 step 2 led by the hand and there is such a heavy reliance on add-ons to do everything for you.
Im not sure what Massey was drinking, or maybe smoking but they need to keep him away from that stuff while he is writing.
A mystery MMO, like wow could you imagie hey i figured it out then what.
Normaly I find his articles good, this one epic fail.
Did you even read the article? I wasn't suggesting "one mystery" that everyone chases.
My wife and I love "Who done its?" wheather its film, tv or books. I think this could be a great concept. With the new trend of player content now being introduced in Combat MMO's (ex. CoX, SWG) this could be a fun module for those type of games. Imagine a quest of solving a very intricate plot climaxing with a confrontation with the final villian. This could also be a simple judgement call on reasoning out who/what caused the situation and stop the McGuff.
What this convention does is draw the player deeper into the story and immersion of the game instead of clicking and hitting kill quota then moving to the next. I believe this is what SW:TOR wants to achieve with its extinsive VO use.
Ever hear of Myst Online/URU Live? They don't have enough resources to finish so they made all their code open source. Maybe it'll come to be one day. My friend and I make little games in our free time and we have some 3dsmax buddies. We are watching this very closely. The source isn't up yet, but as it comes up we will probably dive in and see what we can create.
mystonline.com/en/
I think Mystery MMO's could work and I think there would be a demand of it as well. Maybe not current MMO players posting here however.
One thing I know for sure, we should be talking about radically different ideas like crazy, put it all on the table. This level/skill fantasy only based MMO stuff is great but do we really need decades of the same thing? I think we can do better, much better
I have a question, why we talking about only one kind of mystery game in one game? Why not collecting some kind of it, (Holmes style, Cluedo style... and any other style) then simply choose from their rules that u think others will like, and form a completely new idea of mystery style game this way? why we talking about picking only 1 style - like puzzle, if we can make a completely new style just by mushing toghether different styles and our own ideas?
yeah it doesnt seem complicated to me. I have done "mystery" quests in other MMO's I dont see why that basic idea could not be expanded to a larger scale.
you roll your toon and they can be a private dec or work of the police force and you go out and solve mysteries....simple.
when you think about its not radical but given how all MMO's have a strick framework even a small change is "radical".
The reason I think it would be a smash is becuase of insanely popular the subject matter is in other media such as books and TV.
Agatha Christie plz
If you mean painter then that is different. I never seen a paint pen before, but point taken.
yeah it doesnt seem complicated to me. I have done "mystery" quests in other MMO's I dont see why that basic idea could not be expanded to a larger scale.
you roll your toon and they can be a private dec or work of the police force and you go out and solve mysteries....simple.
when you think about its not radical but given how all MMO's have a strick framework even a small change is "radical".
The reason I think it would be a smash is becuase of insanely popular the subject matter is in other media such as books and TV.
I really think it's because there are a lack of talented writers working on MMO's. Don't get me wrong, creating the lore and backstory is immense and commendable work it seems most of the people creating quests are fresh out of college from computer backgrounds more than being experienced writers. Creating an interesting and complex mystery is not an easy task. I could be wrong and there is more to it, if anyone in the industry knows for sure, I'd love to hear them address the issue.
that is a sane and well thought out view!
I differ a bit however.
1. I think the gaming industry are targeting younger players on purpose to create what is called "product identity". Which is a word that explains the phenomenon that people usually form their life time purchasing habits before their 30’s and almost never change them after 30’sish.
2. its cheaper to code using existing code base from previous games and forumlas.
Although I might be way off on item 1 I think 2 is pretty solid and overall my view is that the gaming industry is just cheap and afraid to take risks more than anything else. Althought if item 1 is true it might make sense why they are not focusing on players above the age of 30.
I can see your point. Maybe we're both right.
But your product theory is very solid. I liken it to musical and movie tastes.
Most people like what they like and they never deviate from it.
Hopefully, some developer will take a chance. All we need is one success so other companies will at least take a look at the possibilities.
I agree. I took a break from gaming for a few weeks becuase I was basically just tired of killing stuff all the time.
but now I am back, bloody blade and all
Yea, I'm not gaming at the moment either. In the Aion beta and will give it a shot in September for the endgame rvr,, but Im waiting for Earthrise. Other than those two, I'm just not impressed with the upcoming MMO's.
I would totally dig a Mystery MMO ala Sherlock Holmes style. Raid Boss: Jack The Ripper
Quests/Mysteries/Cases could be solo but could get solved quicker if you hook up with someone that has a different "skill set". Heck, not even everyone would need to be a dective some could be information brokers.
A Hard Boiled Detective (Sam Spade) type game would be fun too and probably very funny.
It was a pity u never seen URU and Myst Online. Unfortunately they failed. Not because there were no combat but, imho, because some dev choice was too 'hard' to do, such as not having npc's but only people running, also the 'lore' characters.
But it was a wonderful game and there is still a community waiting to see if Cyan can really make at least the MORE project, releasing everything, client and server, to the public domain under the GNU licence, with specific rules.
Here you can find some screenshot about both URU (2003-2004) and MystOnline (2007-2008) experience:
URU: s157.photobucket.com/albums/t56/Gilgameesh/URU%20Live%20Prologue%20Dec%202003%20Feb%202004/
MystOnline: s157.photobucket.com/albums/t56/Gilgameesh/MOUL/
I think, if a mistery MMO can be successful, it can be only Myst. With something done differently, it could be a fantastic MMO.
If you thought about this for a few seconds you would realize why a Mystery MMO would be a massive undertaking. Because the only way to do it is to have different solutions for everyone otherwise the cheaters who look things up on the web would own the game. Unfortunately I don't think you can have that many solutions, hence this idea falls flat on it's face.
Nice try, but no cigar on this thread....
I agree you would need massive resources in order to keep the game going. Something that all MMO's seam to loose after the initiial lets get the game going. So I just cant see a game doing that as the monthy fee required to keep a full programming staff cranking out the new content all the time.
I think this idea is brilliant, but unfortunately won't appeal to a mass audience. If an independent company were to come up with something like this and it was good they would still probably cap out at 50k subscribers, which wouldn't be bad as long as they produce and maintain it for a reasonably small budget.
Of course as MMO's go it'd have to have some sort of character progression and I don't know how that would work in the context.
Because if it had well crafted Mysteries, there'd be one answer, which people could go just find on a webpage. Otherwise it would have to be randomized, which would get old pretty quick. Devs want people to play MMOs for many many months. How many times can you play Clue in a row before you get tired of "it was x in the y with the z"?
I'm sorry, but is anyone else tired of these "Why Not: Random Niche Gameplay?" articles? It seems like the site is really reaching for content with these. I find these articles really aren't realistically held up to the genre with respect to the needs of a successful MMO. I mean, they're nice pipe dreams, but it's hard enough for MMOs with established formulas to get off the ground, let alone wild experimentations.
I like the idea but I don't think it's doable with technology where it's at. It would need an incredible engine capable of creating random, unpredictable scenario's on the fly. Scenario's you couldn't just look up. There needs to be a strong mystery mainstream singleplayer game out in the last 3 years before an attempt at an MMO can be made.
that was probably the most horrible idea i have ever heard of, mystery MMOs, what a ludicrous idea, and the whole article is filled with ideas that have so many loopholes and are not well thought through it seems the author did not even think about them.
No, I"m not tired of random niche' gameplay articles, because there are a portion of people who do want something to cater to their niche'. When people stop trying to imagine something new it's the death of progress. I mean seriously, I"m glad someone imagined tha they could walk on the moon or put a rover on mars, regardless of how ludicrous it sounded to some people.
Hi, i just dropd by and seen the reacts... I have other toughts i have to share with u guys:
First of all, dont realy know what kind of graphical interface u wish to use with this game.. 2/2,5/or 3D i mean... (thus one more if 3D: First person like camera for palyers, or 3rd person mode, can be each?)
Secondly, how will be solved the interacts with items? NPC interacts (lot of interacts with NPCs - not talking about that u have to make them "talk" too.. - will have the game boring after a time), point and click (- like CSI - 2,5D -) or what? Im serious, dnt be mad....
Thirdly, I thinking on characters outfit, and modellng: How you wish to do the character creation? I mean u wish to use schematic character outfit (already done modells for males/females), or u let players do their own characters (just like u can do in - im not sure wich game out of these have system like that, i playd them nearly all, but that was eons ago - Entropia Universe or Ryzom )?
And lastly, have to tell that one thing i forgot to tell when i made my last post, that there is a copyright law, so u have to figure out how to write the "stolen rules" of those games, to not to notice it at first sight, that it is stolen from this and this game. So it have to look like an exactly new idea, unless u dnt want to pay serious cash for copying the game idea....
We talked lots about questing, and so on, but these were worth some thinking too....
Ps.: sorry if i look like harsh or anything, im trying not to be a bully, coz i like the idea, but things have to been asked if you wish to start making a game like this.
Almost forgot to tell, that just the modelling and the drawings takes 3-4 years (!), and lots of working with them. Somtimes 24/7. I can do 3D modelling, and a good to know thing that only the character face takes 4 days to DRAW with 3D modeller program, and 7-10 days to make the face live (i mean coloring have to be done). Other thing is to "stole" already made modell kinds from other games, and edit them, but still they are under copyright law, so i dnt suggest to do it...
Im sharing this with u guys only becouse i wish to say, if game like this will be thinked thru (somtimes takes years to think out what u want), and u can sell the idea, or u can make the game itself, dnt think it will be forvarded to "beta testing" in the next fev years....
Not exactly sure where you going with the "rules"
All game companies steal from each other. The only copyright issues I could see are the source code for the game, and if you take character names, landmark names, 3D models, etc.. that were property of another company and used them in your game.
Crafting is copied from game to game , xp gain to level, class archetypes, weapon types are all similar.
So again, really maybe I"m not just understanding what you mean by "rules"
Not exactly sure where you going with the "rules"
All game companies steal from each other. The only copyright issues I could see are the source code for the game, and if you take character names, landmark names, 3D models, etc.. that were property of another company and used them in your game.
Crafting is copied from game to game , xp gain to level, class archetypes, weapon types are all similar.
So again, really maybe I"m not just understanding what you mean by "rules"
I meant to say if u mushing together game rules, than u have to know, that each game rule u "stole" from other companies are protected by law... (Im not sure u know the procedure how companies start to make games, not to mention MMOs if ur asking me this) To start to make a game there have to be an idea first, and u can sure that the idea is protected. After they apply copyright law on a game idea, they start to make the game. (its possible that the game idea contains the game rules... :) )
Just a good exaímple: the famous "Monopoly" is only have its game rules under copyright law.
"All game companies steal from each other."
- I think it in another way, you know theres an another "law" for that: Its about, if i think out exactly the same idea or product on the same way as you do witouth I seen ur idea or product (i can imagine it another way u done already, witouth ur help), then copyright law means nothing, coz i tought it out and i can proove that i dnt used ur idea.
So we just thinked in the same way. It can be that i figure out how to make a warcraft3 like game witouth using the company already released game....
"The only copyright issues I could see are the source code for the game, and if you take character names, landmark names, 3D models, etc.. that were property of another company and used them in your game."
- agreed, just u forgot to mention game idea, and game rules. (if they can proove that u stole from them, and can proove that isnt ur idea, u just wanted to use their idea or rules coz those fits for the game u tought out, than u pay...)
Well yea but the game rules of Monopoly center around "going to jail, community chest, marvin gardens, boardwalk etc.
There are other games that employ the rules of Staring on a point A and rolling a die or dice in order to progress. You can earn money,property, etc during the game.
So again, that goes to actually copying of the game specifically and not just we have a murder you walk around talk to npcs and solve the case.
Come on Massey you gotta get some better ideas instead of saying,
Why not a (insert vague genre here) MMO?
Isn't Funcom doing some sort of mystery/suspense MMO?
Anywho, the proposal sounds more like it would be best
adapted to private server/game room type games than an MMO.
Some of the things that deter from this idea:
I genuinely think you can't even incorporate mystery elements
in normal MMOs due to points 1 and 2.
As the MMO field evolves, it appears to me, they discard what doesn't work rather quickly.
This might cause throwing the baby out with the bathwater, but as long as players don't
ask for more, the baby wont be missed.
Yes, but those are not game rules (those are told u to know how to use the game, but u can play it another way if u like, they dnt telling u that rolling a dice is "rule" of the game). Becouse u can use any kind of things to step forvard from A to B, for exemple i have 6 digital dice machine, so its not dice. But i can use 6 piece of a paper too to write 6 number on them and we can pull it from a hat.
Dnt sure: have u tried to play a game or use anything witouth knowing how to play or use it.... u can go backward on the tablet too... On rules we mean general rules, not those walktroughts they give for game or for the product. (Im not a bird, am i? than stop looking for my wings...)
General rules are like: after the starting point, this will comes and after that, and u cant write that i wrote on that point, neither u can use up the idea to make these points in the same order, neither u can make a board with same number of tiles/points....
Well, i see u worked lot to out-comment me (im so happy that i can teach u to try to see things with developers eye, for real, im kinda happy to do it), but still, u dnt thinking as som1 who was workd for years in this subject.
Specifics are specifics, and game rules (general) are game rules (general), mostly those things u tried to write as "game rules" are "game rules" in customers sight. But i realy assume u to try to think that u are the first person who have a game idea, and u wish to apply it for copyright law. I know its hard, but try to imagine it. What u want to be inside ur application?
If u think it thru:
- U cant put in lines that tells the ppl how to play. (rules like this kills freedom out from the game)
Example: if players can only use dice to play (i think playing any kind of game makes u free from the reality). So if u saying this to a customer that if he / she not playing ur game with dice, then he / she commits lawbrake... (?) This way u will never sell ur game, coz customer maybe have the idea (or simply analphabet) to play with papers i mentioned. And ur saying then, that he / she doing illegal activity? (WTF?) - if u put this line inside ur copyright applycation, u can be sure it will be a dead-end for the sellings.
Then what lines left if u dnt want others to copy it?
- U can put in line, that u was the one who tought "this" game out. (u cant say this kind, coz theres no other kinds u know of)
- U can say that general rules in ur opinion are those, that ppl notice as specifics of the game. (why good?)
Coz players will have their freedom in game, other ppl cant copy it (so there cant be an exactly like urs).
After thinking it thru, that this was the first person who made a game, u can imagine, that ppl started to think out games not like that one exactly. So 1 or 2 tiles less/more, in other style of gaming, with other words they used, but with the same kind of application form; there is lot of games that looks like a copy, but its not. Thus if u nowadays try to say in an application that u tought out "that kind" of the game, thats not true, and u cant proove it.
If u think forward on it u will notce that RPG, SC-FI, ROMANCE and other style books was before games, so ppl cant say that i making a game in the same ideas too... And thats why u can choose from lots of games looks like the same style that those books written before. And developers still only can say that i made this and this, and not this kind.
By the way u cant use game engine that others own too, and that makes this game happening even harder coz making a completely new engine takes 10-15 years, and then u can upgrade it....
Yes, but those are not game rules (those are told u to know how to use the game, but u can play it another way if u like, they dnt telling u that rolling a dice is "rule" of the game). Becouse u can use any kind of things to step forvard from A to B, for exemple i have 6 digital dice machine, so its not dice. But i can use 6 piece of a paper too to write 6 number on them and we can pull it from a hat.
Actually in the Games Life, Sorry, and Others they do state in the rules to roll the dice. As for using a dice machine or paper, does not change that two different games from two different companies both are using the same rules. It doesn't matter which came first because these 'types' of rules are not copyright protected.
Dnt sure: have u tried to play a game or use anything witouth knowing how to play or use it.... u can go backward on the tablet too... On rules we mean general rules, not those walktroughts they give for game or for the product. (Im not a bird, am i? than stop looking for my wings...)
Yea this made absolutely no sense to me.
General rules are like: after the starting point, this will comes and after that, and u cant write that i wrote on that point, neither u can use up the idea to make these points in the same order, neither u can make a board with same number of tiles/points....
I still have no idea what this has to do with copyright. In order to be against the law in copyright, there has to be a specific duplication or theft of product, not a generalization of it. If what I think you're saying were true, soda companies would be suing each other because they all make soda.
Why do i even bother reading this guys blog's. I feel dumber everytime i am done reading it remove this guy .
Why not? Data mining. Given that an entire game gets charted by obsessives within the first two days of release, if not sooner, a mystery MMO would be a mystery all of two seconds. Unless you want a content team working over time developing things faster than people can discover them, not going to happen.
edit: Never mind, just saw the author. the same idiot who did the article about RP servers. Why is this guy allowed to even speak let alone given a news spot...
Before posting somthin read what u say.... " soda companies would be suing each other because they all make soda."
I got ur way of thinking, u switching products, with product making. Yes they all make soda, but not with the same stuff of producing materials (some soda has more, some has less from those materials they use when they making it, but in the end it will be still soda, just like the other). So it means that any1 can make soda on lots of ways.
by the way if i know it correct we have different copyright forms for producing a book, for producing a food, and for producing a game....
Why not a Mystery MMO? The same reason why mystery games are never popular. The only mystery game, and this is a stretch, that ever reached critical acclaim was Myst, and they already tried and failed to create an MMO.
Serious Dana, go back to X-files.
Cant develope somthing before its finished, true, but have to make ur product in the way others can develop. u cant just say, that i make a game this way, and in the end developers recognise that u stole the whole product.
On making ur game this way, i mean u making ur game idea this way.
Uhm, the internet is full of websites containing spoilers, cheats and solutions for most of the quests of any MMO. Strategy guides, character builders and so on...
I don't see any difference, really. The only difference is about the people. I 'm pretty sure a mistery MMO woukd never attract kids that play to compete at any cost, instead of having fun.
It could never be a millions players MMO, but, if well done can get some success as niche game, with a mature audience, that play to have fun.
BTW, i think Myst failed because they focused too much on the 'ages' and less on crafting. A mistery game, specifically, an 'archeological' game such as Myst, could greatly benefit with a good crafting system.
Too long to explain more in deep.
^QFT.
Secret World seems like it will really be something new(no level system, etc, gameplay based on solving mysteries and etc) fitting "Mystery MMO" genre.
Having high hopes for this one. Hopefully other companies will follow and this will develop into its own genre, just as MMORTS had.
you see a mob
you cast fast interview
interview first target
cast stop right there on second target
say nice day area effect
F5 hotkey dialog tree
......
I'd love a mystery mmo in style of Sherlock Holmes or any of Agatha Christie's stories.
What would appeal more players in it as well would be that players could create content. Player created mysteries and they could possibly be the game master for it :)
Wow... you just made me think - Persona's monster negotiation system meets Vanguard's diplomacy system. Epic.
Mosf of these posters don't seem to get it, once someone solves something the solution will be on the net within hours. So that precludes using solving mysteries as a way to advance your character, those that look things up will always be miles ahead of you. Even introducing randomness won't help much, just more solutions posted.
While single player mysteries work well as you are playing against the computer, they just collapse when it comes to a MMO setting.
I have not read one suggestion in this thread that works for a game like this in a MMO setting.
I can see this idea work as a Singelplayer/MP game, but not as a MMo, the replay is not ther, and so the revenu for the company making it will not be large enof to supoert the staf needed to ceep the game running. Solw a mystery one time, and the rest will be just repeet, Mindles Grind all ower, just in a difrent lock then in a normal Heroic wow instant. might end upp even more boring. and adding a new "dungoen"/hous/murder every day will demand a loot of staf.
But take a lok at Seacret world........ get the mysteries combined whit the "normal content". then your starting to get som replay, and som mony for the company making it.
The hole idea sounds just like a quest in my opinion just a bit smarter aranged...
Quest text, Find out who killed "name her". Clues are inside the house, and whitnes are in the livingrome.
Killed can be traded for, stolen, raped, Smashed and so on, but its stil just a quest, and will only be solwed one time. (i hate daily quests), and if every quest will be like that, that will end upp beeing WERY boring.
mm mystery mmo on paper is nice
like socialism is nice on paper like democracy is nice on paper
but when you hadd the human factor and how to implement it lol
thats where the problem start
first in a mystery mmo be it agatha cristhy style of myst
you cant just do a pve schript
so say its a mafia vs cop thing
unless the player is the one acting as a mob or police people will get bored
myst style cant honestly be an mmo i could be wrong
so say
you do a mystery mmo it would need schedule e-mail etc why
there is a game if its still going on
it use all the comunication device in existance
like your at the office you would receive a real fedex package saying go to x.y.z location etc
you went there something would happen etc
it was a while back
people went like wtf is this they had forgotten they were still playing some put cop on these issue untill they found out it was their on stupidity
it was insanelly real (just a game tho)
so in my view an online mmo that would be a mystery
would need to be linked with an e-mail so that if you need to be at x spot in the gasme for various reason game maker can send an e-mail for it etc
can it be made today probably very easy
but would it be popular or creep people out like when they made that real life mystery game
beat me
i can say for my self ,it would probably creep me out to receive an e-mail from say wiskeyjack
in say x-file online (imaginary player)saying i need to logon to respond to alcapone inquiry of any kind
i cannot even imagine how they could make such a game
but i can say it defenetly need to be horror mystery
the fear factor is always the big incentive to mystery
like a bone chilling music or a small beat like jaws
doodumddom etc
with a chilling picture its perfect
but it would have to be adult rated
i dont believe mystery mmo can be done for all age
i might be wrong,but its hard to keep player playing if its not spooky enough and parent dont want their children to play those game
hell a game maker in the past did pretty aggressive content in a bandit police game
hell they were almost floged by parent
they sold humongus amount of that title but when parent begun to play with kids or even play themselves ,they were like wow this is way too violent for my baby (lol)
so can mystery mmo work mm probably but for adult only !
tell you what, why have a game devoted to the mystery genre. Why not incorperate mystery elements into current and future MMO's? I've seen lots of lore that could easily be turned into a mystery quest/event. Also i think it could boost exploring a bit more (searching for clues), something i find fun in many games
I agree, and I think I touched on that at one point. Basically, niche games in my opinion are a big part of evolution. Without combat, someone could do a really, really good mystery game. Then more mainstream MMOs might pick up the good parts. ;)
A lot of the great mystery novels had some combat in them, that's why Holmes brought Watson along. Add a little combat and you might get the idea to sell... without it the boredom factor will set in.
PS - for example: same Clue scenario but as the killer's identity is getting closer and closer to being revealed then the killer starts trying to take out those who are hot on the trail, and you find yourself having to defend against the killer as he/she sets traps for you or tries to poison/stab/shoot you.
yep sim mystery, could be a big succes since its still one of the biggest if not the biggest game franchise
but it need to be so different then what they usually make im not sure we ll ever see a mystery mmo
Most of us who would enjoy a mystery MMO wouldn't have any fun if we cheated at it, so we wouldn't go to those sites. Moreover, if the mystery was a random event spawned by a decently designed random event generator there could be thousands or even more possibilities. You couldn't possibly write a guide for them all as sometimes a mystery might seem to be going down one path when something someone does suddenly sends it along another.
It wouldn't be a WoW killer, but it'd have a good community.
Edit: I hate WoW, I just acknowledge it's large fan base.
<Puts on his Deer Stalker Outfit>
The rise and fall of the adventure genre is not a mystery dear boy. The flooding of the PC market by a younger demographic made shooters and such the new PC best sellers. The Xbox which is essentially a rubbed down PC hailed the final nail in the coffin for the distinction that existed between console games and PC games. As always game designers go where market sales lead them and with the under twenties becoming the big spenders in the PC market, there was no hope adventure games could survive. Rather elementary dear Dana.
Cheating on a mmorpg have had always been beyond my comprehension, and cheating on a mystery mmorpg is another few notches below the belt.
was wondering something like this the other day, but more in line with "wtb survival horror mmorpg", had a few ideas in the area too... not really as a whole genre, but a mmorpg that has aspects of it at certain times (e.g. the start or it pops up in a main quest line)
Something that no one has pointed out about Clue is that you play as one of the suspects, but even you don't know if you did it until the end of the game. While you know it's going to be one of these 6 people with one of these 6 weapons done in one of these 9 rooms, you don't know which particular combination it is for that instance.
But I don't think a Clue-style game would make a good MMO. It would rapidly get repetitive and tedious as you figure out which of the 324 instances you're in. Could definitely be done as an online game, but just in an online gaming parlor.
I do like the idea of a mystery MMORPG. I'd play it, for sure.
I could see it being a skill-based system with a few affiliations instead of classes. Maybe cop, private eye, and reporter. Each affiliation would be part of your character's back story and give you access to different resources. Maybe as a cop you'd have access to a crime lab and as a PI you'd have better connections to the underworld. As you solve cases, you get skill points to go towards diplomacy or intimdation or "eyesight." And maybe you start getting bigger cases, promotions, stories, pay offs...
For team situations, you could get points based on your contributions to solving the case. Everybody gets something once the case is solved, but you get a bonus for finding evidence or scaring off an intruder before he commits another theft/murder.
The big hurdle would be creating new content and foiling spoilers as much as possible.
There is only one game that I know of that has really given this idea a go. Myst online or Uru. It failed though with a huge fan base still but I think Myst Online's problem was the character models and the UI. They were just too off the norm of the MMORPG standard and it made the game feel sticky and difficult to control. The character models were rather plane looking and had horrible hair and customizing was limited. Then Cyan Worlds ran into money problems and as far as I know still can not afford to bring the game back though they did manage to regain the rights out of a pretty bad deal. Right now I think the company is living off its phone game versions of its older games. I really loved the Myst story, its too bad it did not work out.
It is a good idea [the article] but to pull it off its going to have to be a really polished piece of work. Just look at all these comments and you see you have to convince people that the way things are is not how they have to be. Typical humans.
I just want to ask two questions about this Mystery MMO idea and perhaps to answer them as well:
1. Why a mystery MMO would be a good one?
I think beacause it's something new, something different. We all see that today's MMOs share same features of game mechanics, like: creating a character, level advancement, item hunting, raids, crafting, PvP (unbalanced and sometimes that is close to balance).
1.1 The name is the key
Mystery is something that is lacking in the MMOs! There is no mystery, no single player experience, no secrets. Still, I believe that this is something that can be achieved, if the game world is creating in instances (as Dana said) but not for many people ... 5 maybe 6. If there is no need to create a character, then the players will depend only on their intellect and cunningness. But if there is a character selection and every character has a specific predifined skills, could be more interesting and if there is more than one way to solve a mystery ... well that's a different story! Maybe that's the point, maybe this would be the funniest part, that everyone knows how the mystery can be solved but the combinations to do that are many! Well, this is the hardest thing of developing such game and it's not about numbers, balance of classes and skills ... it's about clever mind games, interessting puzzels with more than one options (if you understand what I mean:))
Well, for me, mystery is a one man experience. I can't share that kind of feeling with noone else, even the closest ones ... but that is just me. The other people have different point of view, different needs.:)
1.2 The Feeling
That's something that can be achieved with good level design, sounds and music and hell yeah, they are very important for a mystery.
1.3 The Setting
For me, a real mystery is an alien planet, ocean depths, or even the human body. Traveling through time is something new for the MMOs too. And please, let there be a new setting, no Star Wars, no Star Trek, no Stargate, no Conan, no DnD, no WoD, no WoW!!! "There is only one salvation - our own imagination"
2. Why a mystery MMO would be a bad one?
My answer is this: There is now action, no competition! Everyone needs a good gameplay, as developers like to say for each game: Easy to learn, hard do master ... I may add: Easy to promise, hard to implement. I bet, most of the forum users here and gamers all over the world like to see a really good gameplay, instead of amazing graphics.
... Still there could be a competition like ranking points according to number of successful missions/quests/mysteries and depending this ranking points a new instances for the player would be available.
So, that is my opinion! :)
The idea of a mystery game thats mmo based acctually would be extreamly hard to make but would be worth the effort so i agree with you dana.
imagine a game where you can be good or bad like many games that are mmo difference is its not all about fighting or lvling in fact the only thing that you need is your mind.
you start out with an npc crime to solve. basically to learn the mechanics of the game someone came into your home and removed everything while you slept even your bed and you woke up on the floor. cops are baffled so you have no choice but to try and figure it out for yourself hence forth you begin to learn the mechanics of the game using basic items and chemichals to find clues and the like. finally after learning the game and solving your first crime you decide to open up a business for being a detective for rewards and cash
on the flip side if you choose a darker path
you start out viewing a scene where your being invited into a gang of some sort and you have to perform a crime bigger then mugging or something something along the lines of true theft (but of course adding combat to the game and weopons makes this path very interesting.
now as far as solving crimes would go everything you see on tv would be possible when someone commits a crime they leave behind trace evedence from hair to fluids doesnt matter now the crook can clean up there tracks if there intellegence is high enough but really its a full blown battle of wits and knowledge of crimes.
as your playing the game can be based in 1 or two ways you can either commet or solve a crime using an npc and then say if your good and an npc has a crime commited against them there will be a board posted on the crime for anyone to pick up also npcs commit crimes as well so people dont have to be online all he time you can solve crimes for money from them also you can commit crimes between other players basically a full fledged world where you own homes (for free <--- part of the game mechanic and has to be available for free) you can own a business but honestly going deeper and make the game more intruiging would be a do anything say anything world something like second life but with better standard graphics a building system yes but only for homes and buildings items would be bought in game every item is available everything is open to get but can be bought faster in a game shop experience doesnt matter as the only experience you need is what youve acctually done.
as far as more aabout the crime solveing you can do anything from checking cameras (you acctually have to watch the camera and write down information you see) to fingerprints and everything its a literal world
the game is going to be very very complicated to make but i beleive would be worth it in the end
Reikaz
leave me a message on things you would change and what you would add to make it better this is just the rough idea ive been thinking of and needs a lot of work
now to go a step further on ideas do not say anything like " take such and such out becasue it would be too complicated to make" nothing is too complicated to make. if japan can make a robat to carry patience to another table then we can make a game with anything in it possible leave ideas but no complaints and if you have to complain then complain and give a real reason why.