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Newsroom
Atlantica Online : Child's Play Withdraws from Fundraising Event
Posted Dec 30, 2009 by Michael Bitton
NDOORS Interactive recently announced a promotion whereby a new box that could potentially contain some of the game's most rare and sought after items would be made available for 3999 Gcoins at Atlantica Online's item mall, and that 5% of the gross revenue generated from the event would be donated to the Child's Play charity.
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This is no longer the case.
NDOORS Interactive has announced today that due to negative player feedback Child's Play has withdrawn themselves from the event:
...we are saddened to inform you that due to some negative player complaints, Child’s Play has regrettably asked to be withdrawn from our efforts to raise money for their cause. We were informed that Child’s Play received negative emails from Atlantica Online players around the nature of the donation and the box, causing them to request removal from our fundraising efforts.
It is incredibly unfortunate that we are unable to give the donation amount that you, our players, raised to this charity due to the negativity of certain players around the nature of the donation and an optional, opt-in purchase. While we recognize that not all of our players were negative towards the donation and/or box, it is regrettable that the actions of a few have prevented our players, as a whole, from donating to this cause (we say “as a whole” because our players can still donate directly, and we encourage you to do so).
Read the full announcement here.
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Just goes to show that some people will complain about the sky being blue. And those people should be put on a spaceshuttle and be shot into the sun.
oooh 5%. that's pretty giving. (yes, it's the thought that counts, better than nothing, etc but c'mon now)
donate via the charity website and get a tax receipt instead of dumping 95% of the fund into the item mall wallet /shrug
sounds like bull shit to me, ndoors are greedy bastards just play the game you will see what i mean
Well, label me as one of those "negative people". I DETEST when companies try a blatant cashgrab, throw some stupid trifling amount (5%) to a charity and try to pass themselves off as doing something "good".
If ndoors is so into the ideals behind this charity, let them make a large donation and keep the best items in the game out of it.
yup, your seat's saved for complaining about ppl complaining which will make you complain too because they'll be complaining about you complaining about the complainers complaining about your comment.
So now instead of getting those stupid 5%, the children get nothing. Well done.
So now instead of getting those stupid 5%, the children get nothing. Well done.
Orrrrr......instead of being greedy fucks and involving some cashscam in the whole thing, ndoors could just make a donation? Nonsense to do something asblatantly obviously greedy and self serving as this, try to pass it off as charity, then put the owness on the players when they call bullshit.
Blizz just pulled the same shit. Its crap.
"charity" should not involve the company "being charitable" making a pile of money off it. Luckily, most people aren't too dense to see this kind of scheme for what it is....though, obviously , there are those dense few.
Orrrrr......instead of being greedy fucks and involving some cashscam in the whole thing, ndoors could just make a donation? Nonsense to do something asblatantly obviously greedy and self serving as this, try to pass it off as charity, then put the owness on the players when they call bullshit.
Blizz just pulled the same shit. Its crap.
"charity" should not involve the company "being charitable" making a pile of money off it. Luckily, most people aren't too dense to see this kind of scheme for what it is....though, obviously , there are those dense few.
The motives are irrelevant. They are still going to sell those items in their item shop. That will not change. They were going to donate some to charity and now they are not. That is the bottom line. So to the people that complained I say 'well done'.
Be pissed all you want.
hey Arche, when's the blastoff time for that shuttle to the sun? You're complaining about complainers which makes you a complainer. Kinda makes you look a fool doing exactly what you bitched about others doing in this not so long thread. Short term memory issues?
Orrrrr......instead of being greedy fucks and involving some cashscam in the whole thing, ndoors could just make a donation? Nonsense to do something asblatantly obviously greedy and self serving as this, try to pass it off as charity, then put the owness on the players when they call bullshit.
Blizz just pulled the same shit. Its crap.
"charity" should not involve the company "being charitable" making a pile of money off it. Luckily, most people aren't too dense to see this kind of scheme for what it is....though, obviously , there are those dense few.
The motives are irrelevant. They are still going to sell those items in their item shop. That will not change. They were going to donate some to charity and now they are not. That is the bottom line. So to the people that complained I say 'well done'.
Be pissed all you want.
yep, and it's the players fault that ndoors couldn't just make a donation without trying to use "charity" as advertising. ...wait...no it isn't......
I didnt complain, I made an observation and gave an opinion. I didnt go out of my way to complain about the motives of a company charity event. I would really like to know how many of those who complained about it actually donated to that charity themselves.
A couple of days before christmas, i gave a homeless guy 20 bucks. I didn't need to come here to post about it, tie it in to some way to make gains from it myself, expect any recognition in return..etc(i only mention it now for illustrative purposes). I did it because the frikkin guy looked like he could use 20 bucks more than me.
The meaning of charity has been lost. When you wanna do something nice, just do it. Giving 5% of your massive cashgrab away, with hoopla and fanfare and "oh look how charitable we are" is NOT charity. Its advertising.
I don't even play this craptastic game, but I am glad the players over there know bullshit when they smell it.
Welcome to the real world.
Welcome to the real world.
the real world also includes AIDS , lying politicians, people who kill puppies , and acid rain.....
doesnt mean those are good things.
the real world also includes AIDS , lying politicians, people who kill puppies , and acid rain.....
doesnt mean those are good things.
I dont remember saying the real world was all good. My point was that before the complaints they were going to give something, and now they not anymore. To me thats what matters in this story. What is better, doing something good for everyone, even if the motive is greed, or doing nothing at all? I would like to know this, because I dont see how the charity's details would have actually hurt anyone.
Id also like to add that the rep from ndoors whining about how the players called bullshit on their...well, umm..bullshit, is a douche. Write them a check yourself mr rep and stop whining and blaming the players that your ad campaign was a failure.
ndoors new marketing rep, Smedley :P
ouch, actually I wouldn't wish that on them....much
You're free to think that. There is no way for me to prove im not a rep from ndoors, just like there is no way for you to prove I am.
Have a nice day.
the real world also includes AIDS , lying politicians, people who kill puppies , and acid rain.....
doesnt mean those are good things.
I dont remember saying the real world was all good. My point was that before the complaints they were going to give something, and now they not anymore. To me thats what matters in this story. What is better, doing something good for everyone, even if the motive is greed, or doing nothing at all? I would like to know this, because I dont see how the charity's details would actually hurt anyone.
Listen, Im not disagreeing that whatever the motive , them getting something is better than nothing. I'm not hating on you for having an opposing opinion to mine.
I'm hating on ndoors for being greedy douchebags .
Again, my point stands...instead of whining, they should just write a check. it isn't like their cash shop is losing money or anything. Blaming your playerbase for not buying into their scumbag, greedy motives is offensive to me. That's all.
Completely agree. So far, the only game I've seen that decided to do this the way it should be is Wizard101... that is, 100% of all money earned off of people who bought a special mount went to charity. Seriously, is it really THAT hard to say "Hey, let's spend an hour or two desinging this special *thing* and then not only get a tax write-off as a company, but get good promotion and good feelings as well!"
It was bad enough when Blizz was all "Yeah, 50%!", but 5% is just terrible. It's throwing crumbs at those who are suffering and going "What, I'm giving them crumbs! How dare you get upset over this! It's better than nothing!"
You're free to think that. There is no way for me to prove im not a rep from ndoors, just like there is no way for you to prove I am.
Have a nice day.
Lol, i wasnt claiming you to be a rep, i was talking about the quote in the op :)
You're free to think that. There is no way for me to prove im not a rep from ndoors, just like there is no way for you to prove I am.
Have a nice day.
You may want to reread the original post, as that's what lawn was talking about...
Lol, i wasnt claiming you to be a rep, i was talking about the quote in the op :)
Allright, I misuderstood you then. Probably because I saw no whining in the press release. I saw a rep explaining why the campaign was cancelled. How do you explain why it was cancelled without mentioning the 'why'?
Yeah.. but even Blizz donated 50% of the revenue for these items. To me, 50% of the procedes does show good intention. 5% is simply an attempt to gain free advertising and a false incentive for players to actually buy the items.
This is purely opinion and speculation, but if I owned a company like ndoors, I think a better way to raise awareness for a charity might be to give away a free "pet" with some sort of likenessto the charity or something. i.e. the childs play bear or some shit like that. Then encourage the players to make donations on their own.
Win /win. You get to look good for raising awareness of the charity, while probably generating some donations and make nothing off it so you dont look like greedy scumbags.
I bet there was never any discussion about going that route though, despite how endeared to the charity in question ndoors is. I also noticed they didnt say anything like, since things didnt go as planned, we would still like childs play to recieve a donation, so we are just gonna give them 100 grand....
I mean...if we arent making anything off it, fuck em , right?
Yeah.. but even Blizz donated 50% of the revenue for these items. To me, 50% of the procedes does show good intention. 5% is simply an attempt to gain free advertising and a false incentive for players to actually buy the items.
50% of like 2 months of something that is ongoing forever...but yeah...
{ Mod Edit } Its not a scam if people were going to spend their money on items anyways. The game runs off an item mall. Dont like it? Dont play it. They didnt have to donate 5% to charity but wanted to do something nice. Doing something nice is not being greedy. Now because of stupid people like you who have nothing better to do then be whiny bitches, theres going to be less money being donated to a great cause. Having worked at a childrens hospital, I can tell you a large majority of the costs needed to run it comes from donations. Most of those donations come from what you would call "greedy" companies. So, perhaps while your taking games away from children, you should also unplug their life support since it was paid for by these donations.
I would be absolutely willing to bet that a VERY small portion of the costs to run a childrens hospital DO NOT come from charities tied in to advertising. They come from people who donate out of a desire to do so. There are companies...lots of them...who just fucking donate...you know...to be nice..not to raise sales.
Its nice to see that no one will even touch what I keep bringing up. You have two choices: one, give 5% of that item to charity. Two, give nothing. Apparently alot of people thought option number two was better because option number one was too 'immoral'.
You said you gave a homeless guy 20 bucks cause he needed them more than you. How about I complain that you could've given him 50 and that you're just a cheapass, uh? The guy lives on the street, its fucking cold, he has no money. You have a home, a job and you give him 20 bucks? fork over 50 or 100 and make sure he makes it through the winter with enough blankets to stay alive out there.
Or better yet, invite him to spend the holidays in your home. Now thats proper charity.
Youre wrong. There are 3 choices. They could have just made the donation quietly.
Youre wrong. There are 3 choices. They could have just made the donation quietly.
And we come full circle. Welcome to the real world, where some companies try to merge the useful and the pleasant.
Edit - and I dont know if you noticed, but players were sending what was basically 'hate mail' to Child's Play, not Ndoors. Way to go, bitch to the charity and not the company. Now thats some good old fashioned 'lol' for ya.
And we come full circle. Welcome to the real world, where some companies try to merge the useful and the pleasant.
Edit - and I dont know if you noticed, but players were sending what was basically 'hate mail' to Child's Play, not Ndoors. Way to go, bitch to the charity and not the company. Now thats some good old fashioned 'lol' for ya.
Certainly can't argue with the point in your edit.
I'm not 100% certain on the exact details, but as I recall, NDOORS recently made changes to Atlantica's item mall. It used to be that players could decide between getting items faster (through the mall) and farming them yourself (slower). In the change, they nerfed drop rates of a lot of important items for the game, basically forcing late-game players to either pay money or fail at the PvP.
Players complained A LOT. And for all of their complaining, NDOORS did nothing. So it makes sense that they would contact Child's Play, a company that might actually listen to their complaints.
Also, it's impossible to say if it was hate mail or not. The entire release from NDOORS sounds more like them trying to make anyone who complains out to be bad guys who, like us, feel that 5% is a spit in the face. It's possible that everyone who contacted them said "Look, this is what's going on, and we'd hate to see a great company like Child's Play team up with scum over 5%."
What Ndoors should of done instead is giving 5% of what they received from players buying from their item mall since launch. That would of been better instead of trying to screw people over with a "event" for charity which involves the item mall. Why do companies always have to take the contreversial road when they got the easy road right under their noses? AO is worst then gambleing at the casino tbh,without knowing in 7 months I've putted 3K $ into their item mall,I slapped myself and haven't touched my computer for a whole month and then uninstalled the game,since then I kept my ass away from F2P MMO's.
-Happy New Year in advance
Don't see Ndoors complaining, they get the extra 5%! Sounds like they were in the only winners in this scenario. Advertising something as going to charity and then turning around and not doing it seems to be like they are breaking some laws. Perhaps some attorney general's need to look into this situation.
Personally I find Ndoors one of the more greedy producers in this genre. I don't play their games and advise any one else to avoid them too.
No. The actual two choices are:
1. Have an increase in sales of more than 5% (more people will buy than normal cause of the charity) with the drawback of having to give 5% for charity.
2. Do your normal sales and give nothing for charity.
----
If that's ok for you, why don't you sent me 100$ and i promise i 'll give to some poor guy over here the 20$.
No. The actual two choices are:
1. Have an increase in sales of more than 5% (more people will buy than normal cause of the charity) with the drawback of having to give 5% for charity.
2. Do your normal sales and give nothing for charity.
----
If that's ok for you, why don't you sent me 100$ and i promise i 'll give to some poor guy over here the 20$.
I guess I just refuse to be that cynical. Must be a flaw in my character.
You didn't sent me any money either... Why? Cause it's not about being cynical. It's about common sense.
You didn't sent me any money either... Why? Cause it's not about being cynical. It's about common sense.
I didnt send you any money because you're not actually providing a service, or a product, unlike Ndoors. Say what you want about the company. All companies are greedy, we get it. They sell a product, dont want to buy, then dont. But dont whine because they try to make money, thats what all companies do.
SOE is doing the same thing I believe. You buy the different Child's Play items for 500 Station Cash [$5] and they are donating $10. So they are doing double the amount the players spend.
NDoors claims to have done nothing.
Child's Play simply decided that it would deny the donation. Higher-ups there are the ones that seem to be too full of pride to accept money to save lives because of some bad e-mails that you may not even be able to prove that came from actual Atlantica Online players and consider them as coming from the whole Atlantica community. Could even be NDoors sending the e-mails as players. You never know...
Unless NDoors pulled all this BS, and is actually using CP as scapegoat, because I fail to see how CP would ever need to bring this up, and if they really knew about gamers they would know how much people can be jerks in the internet and acknowledge that saving lives is more important than giving in to asshats. Very strange...
Making money is the single most healthy thing for a company to do. However selling charity is not. If they didn't wanted this to turn against them they could have just claimed "ok we sell this. it's at normal price, however we expect to make a bit higher sales cause 5% of the money will go for charity". But they decided to treat their customers like idiots. That's the price they 're paying now.
Like when you meet a girl, you have to be decent on what you want to do with her. Sex or relation? If you say relation but the next day you 're with the next girl on your list, you 're probably gonna pay it... Basic shit you learn from highschool...
5%???? How about instead of "donating" to NDOORS u give something to "Child´s Play"??
I propose an elegant solution to this for next year.
1) Pick an item in the item mall to sell for charity next year. Said item must stay in the item mall all year long.
2) Next December, when you want to donate to the charity, figure out the average amount of these items sold per day.
3) IMPORTANT: Don't tell anyone you will be donating money to charity, because this would be advertising.
4) Any day during the unadvertised charity event that more than the average number of units is sold, reserve that money in the "charity fund."
5) At the conclusion of the secret donation event, simply announce that you will be donating X amount of money to a charity, where X = the amount in the "charity fund."
This solution seems to be the exact solution that would make everyone happy as it includes the following key points that I have picked out in this thread:
1) No advertising.
2) NDoors makes no more money than they potentially would have anyhow.
3) Company appears to have "just cut a check" to the charity, making players feel good about the company.
4) Since no item appears to have been the target of the charity, players don't feel ripped off for purchasing something they would have purchased anyhow.
Downsides however to this method are very few, numbering almost exactly one. There may be others I haven't considered, but here is a complete list as of this moment:
1) Charity receives little to no money because no-one was aware of the event.
Clearly there are a lot of better ways that this could have been handled. There are also numerous ways that this could have been done even worse. I think we need to get over ourselves and our opinions on what is right and wrong. The fact that they decided to donate any portion at all is a great gesture. It may have looked like advertising, but I think that was just an unavoidable part of letting people know of the plan to donate. My state lottery "benefits older Pennsylvanians", but I don't buy lottery tickets because I want to help old people, I buy them because I want something. This item mall sale is the same idea, it benefits children in the hospital without video games, but I didn't buy it because I wanted to help children, I bought it because I wanted something. In this case the something is simply a mount, or that thing for the druid quest, while in the previous case I wanted money.
Next time, lets not mess up a chance to do a little bit of good, even if some of it does seem immoral. If you feel so strongly, simply donate to the charity yourself and don't make the purchase. I mean really, isn't that the ultimate kick in the face?
In closing, I would just like to thank this thread for the best laughs I've had in quite a while.
It doesn't matter if you thought that 5 percent was a piddly amount: if you complained directly to Childs Play, you are a sack of absolute shit.
Beau
Exactly! If you want to complain,just troll around in the official forum. Since when people started to worry about the complaints being effective? Holy..
What's next? Someone see a crime and instead of talking to the bad guy,he calls THE COPS? Just absurd
=[
Hello,
I am the Community Coordinator here at Ndoors Interactive Inc. In order to give some clarification on our promotion, we created a special item box for our players to have the opportunity to receive a desirable item within our game. As an added bonus, we would be donating 5% of our gross sales of this box to the Child’s Play charity. When we released this item we informed our players about which charity the proceeds would go to so that players who did not wish to participate by purchasing this item had the opportunity to donate to the charity directly.
The promotional item mall box in question included a group of in-game items which was gathered from our player’s feedback. This was created in order to give back to some of our users this holiday season. Players are neither required to purchase this item box to play our game, nor is it the only possible way of obtaining the items that are contained in this box.
We here at Ndoors Inc. wish to continue in keeping with the giving spirit and we will be continually giving back to charities on an annual basis. We are now working with our community in order to decide on a new charity so that the proceeds will benefit people in need.
Sincerely,
The Atlantica Online Team
Exactly! If you want to complain,just troll around in the official forum. Since when people started to worry about the complaints being effective? Holy..
What's next? Someone see a crime and instead of talking to the bad guy,he calls THE COPS? Just absurd
=[
Let me re-state what I have said:
If you emailed Child's Play to gripe, complain bitch or moan about the small amount (5 percent) that the charity would receive, then you need to have your head examined.
This is not about someone writing Childs Play to go "Hey, you know, I think that you are not getting a fair shake.." this is about several members of the community writing emails griping, bitching and moaning about, more than likely, the contents or price of the item and the small (by their standards) percentage.
Oh well, what else would you expect from a community of angry white male youth?
Beau
i wasnt aware you knew exactly what was mentioned in the emails.
Until someone comes out with a copy of exactly what those people had emailed, dont jump to conclusions about what those "complainers" did or didn't say.
Edit: if you know atlantica, you'd know that communication between player and company is lacking...(hence the new creation of Lawl, the CC to help solve this)
Though, after the box was released, there were comments about NDoors not listening to the community. People not really fond of getting a box for a higher price only to receive a costume. The box was not well received.
Do not play your game and most likely never will.
That said, any type of charity should be welcomed and appreciated. Most companies would of just placed the things for sale and took all the profits. Hello, cash shop? :)
Many companies (Businesses) do this, give a small % to some charities, and do not take flack for it that i am aware of. This is first MMO that i have heard of that tried something like this.
5 % is always more than 0% :) so to me, the charity and the people complaining, seem to be the only ones losing here.
People seem to be confusing the way charities are run, the actual % of donations that go to the cause -VS- the % taken for salaries,operating costs and so on. And donations, what people or companies give, to a charity.
Really, we are now going to try to make anyone, companies, or people, have to donate a set percentage to qualify as a "good thing"? As i said above, any donation is better than none.
Anyhow, for me it seems that your company tried to do something good. So well done.
For those who want to say that 5% is better than nothing, well yes, it is. The problem of course, as has been pointed out, is that 5% is such a meager pittance that it can only be classified as a blatant attempt to *USE* a good charity as a *VEHICLE* to enrich your own coffers.
My personal measure of the glass being considered half full (doing a good deed) or half empty (being a self-serving d-bag), is the 50% mark. The glass is 5% full, 95% empty. The so-called charitable gesture is as morally bankrupt and transparent as the foregoing glass, AND THAT is why people are reacting negatively to it.
Apparently, Child's Play doesn't much care to be played for a fool and pulled out. No amount of complaints would have caused them to take this action had they not felt similarly.
For NDOORS to then try to lay blame on those who pointed this out to Child's Play is just the reprehensible icing on the shit cake.
I recently purchased a vanity pet in EQ2 with 50% of the proceeds going to Child's Play, so I do practice what I espouse. Had the contribution been anything less than 50%, I would not have bought it and instead would have sent money directly to CP. Which is great option for anyone who still feels that 5% is better than nothing.
I don't think a charity is going to give a shit where it gets money from - they are only afraid that the idiot peoples sending them hate mail will target them next for accepting the money. Ridiculous how people actually sent them messages saying "don't take it, it's a scam, boogey boogey", only to have these people think "well shit, maybe these crazy players will come after us next and try to defraud our organization over blatant BS too". They backed out because you people like to blow shit out of proportion, not because it was a scam (which I admit it was).
/facepalm_for_humanity
P.S. I bet money that most of those letters to the charity were *threatening*. At least a handful saying "they too would be exposed", or something along those lines. Lets not confuse ourselves for a second by thinking any of them were aimed at 'informing' a company as much as 'warning' them about how far the authors are willing to take the battle.
To even admit you are part of this fiasco is hilarious. Ndoors is without doubt the most despised company in the genre and this just reinforces that view.
Ah, you beat me to it. For all the crap that gets flung at SOE around here, at least they know how to be charitable.
If I were still an Atlantica Online player and I felt like this was really just a cash grab with a charity front on it, I think I'd have simply not bought the item, or seriously considered moving to a different game run by a company I felt better about. But that's just me.
To even admit you are part of this fiasco is hilarious. Ndoors is without doubt the most despised company in the genre and this just reinforces that view.
Sorry dude, but SOE is more despised in the genre than Ndoors will ever be.
That CEO is a joke. Come on ! We're talking about rare items ! That means a half dozen of lines in their database ! That cost nothing to NDoor that's not like if they had to buy new servers to manage these items or recruit new employees. And they gonna put 95% of the cash in their pocket ?! If that was made in a true charity intent, they shoud have given 100% of the cash. I feel shame for the guys at NDOORS who came up with that "brillant" idea.
Like other people said here : that CEO should give a part of NDOOR's benefit to Child's Play and shut the fuck up about the players who whined about that disgusting and greedy campaign.
It's not the 5% that burns me up about this thing. If Ndoors had donated 5% of all item mall sales for the month of December, that would be great.
But no, they couldn't do that. They had to turn it into a huge cash grab for them. Basically they took a $10 gamble box (with odds of about 10% of getting anything good), raised the price by $30 (to $40 total) and made the booby prize less horribly awful (but still pretty awful).
Basically the booby prize in a $10 box is worth maybe 20 million in game money (which isn't very much, the good item is probably 2-4 billion in value). The booby prize in the $40 gamble box is worth maybe 250 million, still not a lot.
And then donate 5% of the $40 box to charity (or $2). So basically $28 of extra profit for them.
The item mall in AO is by far the worse I have ever seen in any F2P game. It's basically a complete ripoff in almost every sense of the word.
For $30 a month, you basically can buy enough licenses to compare to a $15 p2p game (Blessing license + Warriors pack).
But hey, want something good, like a mount, you have to pay $10 for a 10% chance (at best) to get the good one of the moment. (You can buy a regular horse for $10)
And that's on top of the standard practice in f2p of making end game equipment so hard to acquire, you need to use cash shop items to improve them to high +s. Which can suck $100s out of people.
So anyway, while I actually do like the game of AO, the cash shop is really awful, so I was not surprised by this. Still appalled, but...
I think this news is being blown out of proprotion. Any time when a company ties its donation to the sales of its products it is advertisement regardless of the % of the donation.
Suppose Obama donated 5% of his salary to Child's Play and 10k Americans sent complaints accusing him of buying popularity, would Child's Play refuse Obama's donation?
Although I won't touch the item mall of NDOORS with a 1000 foot pole I wouldn't have rejected their donation if I were Child's Play.
Actually, yes.
If they feel that the donation is causing bad press for either party it might be called off, then swept under the rug. I remember something fairly recent to where either Lindsay Lohan or Paris Hilton wanted to donate money to some charity and speak for them at some event, and they politely turned down the offer - because they wanted to keep the image clean. Perhaps the overwhelming amount of rabies in those emails simply had enough to convince them that either Ndoors should not be dealt with, or that these malicious mailers might try to discredit them next. I wouldn't leave it past any of these cretins to attack a charity for taking "scam money" publically.
I can see the hype now; "games for children stripped from the pockets of poor f2p players at the hands of Satan".
Personally, The thing I hate about this is not the pittance they donated, or that it was a blatant 'cash grab' that nDoors did...
It's the fact that griefers on the internet will rant about anything..
Say a random company asked players to opt into a program to have a higher monthly fee, the extra going to 'random charities'... We'd have several thousand people who were subscribed complaining about 'using charity to get more of our money'... with more than half of them possibly not in the opt-in group.
What I hate is that people seem to live to cause grief on the internet. People who seem to cry 'Scrooge' for the fact that the rich businessman is giving some money to charity over Christmas, ignoring the fact he's even giving something. People don't give a shit that the griefers won...
Congratulations, assholes. Will love to know what nDoors will do with that 5% of sales now you made their attempt to show a bit of Christmas spirit go 'poof'. If they keep it, you'll say they always were. If they find a new charity, you'll make that one pull out. It's the law of the internet.
And it stinks.
All this garbage about, "Now Child's Play looses out on 5%" is complete, utter ignorance.
The truth is that Child's Play is an NFP (not for profit). NFP's are scrutinized all the time simply because the true definition of an NFP means that the corporation does not retain profits (unless in specific tax shelters as assets or liabilities) and has no cash value or dividends for share holders. That leaves room for "questionable" NFP's to give a large salary to its executive officers as they no longer need to worry about share holders. Most of the people who sit on the boards of an NFP sit on several boards of other NFPs. It's a very large intertwined circle that revolves completely around social networking and image.
If Child's Play took a 5% donation for items that were solely created for the purpose of charity or even an impression that they were - that would be bad PR for Child's Play. They would appear to be endorsing a new product for increased revenue gains that profit nDoors. Questions would instantly arise to see if anyone on the board or executive officers of Child's Play had any kind of compensation (i.e. Kickback) or relationship to "gift" a contract to another company.
Not to mention, think of how many people would not have donated directly to Childs Play for 100% donation because of the questionable intent. If they went through with this, I am sure that a lot of people would look elsewhere to donate their charity. Too often are people be scammed out of their money when donating to charities. Which is why any time you make a donation, you should know who you are donating to and how much of the donation actually get to where it's supposed to. In this case, how much of the 5% are going to gifts and how much are going into "operational expenses" (i.e. salaries and office expenses).
Most NFP organizations do take profits from those who raised money for them by doing things such a bake sales, marathons, etc..Look at Feeding America, they are NFP but Food Network is raising money for them....Every NFP does this...and no one complains but when it become some MMO trying to help even if a little...everyone is up in arms. I don't see people telling Feeding America to pull from Food Network because they are big company. I don't see people telling March of Dimes to not do Marches to raise money when big businesses are behind them. It is a double standard and it is sick.
I stopped playing this shit a lonnnnng time ago, i'm not saying it was a bad game. I'm saying that the game was soo good, it seemed to me like ndoors were trying to stuff up their throats by selling this and selling that. Making those who bought shit better in game and ofcourse, their wallets fatter. I hope ndoors burns in hell along with t heir money. This charity SCAM(yea, thats right) its a freaking SCAM is just unnaceptable. I saw this shit coming a mile away and its the first time i see a cash shop package go beyond $50 USD in any game. From now on, its all P2P games for me, i done with free games and their shitty cash shop and greedy owners. Happy New years folks! :)
Sorry dude, but SOE is more despised in the genre than Ndoors will ever be.
And yet SOE doubles the players donations to Child's Play while NDoors tried 5%. Fascinating.
I don't get why some people always want to party with one or the other side when both sides clearly stink... G.Bush was your child hero heh?
Sooo why protest this.Let me break down what I see .Maybe you will agree , maybe you won't.
Ndoors is offering 5% of the GROSS earnings from the special box they are selling to Child's Play.That is 5% of what they make before taxes.Meaning that this money being donated is tax free to Child's play .Where as Ndoors will still have to pay taxes on the whole ammount they recieved.(Granted they will get a tax break on the donation.But this alone means that they are donating more than 5% of the actual money they get to keep.
Ndoors has bills to pay also.1st they have to pay taxes on the money they make.Then there is overhead.I mean guys lets be real here.They probably pay out half if not much more of the money they make to keep this game running.This is how they make there money .So 5% turns into a larger ammount when you factor in taxes that Ndoors pays.Plus after it is said and done, who knows how much of this money they make is actual profit? For all we know 5% of the Gross earnings , may be close to how much Ndoors actual gets to keep after Taxes and overhead,staffing,equipment etc.So for people to think that 5% is bad , it may be more than you think and it is definately better than 0%.
Which leads me to my closing thought.Now they get 0% .But Guess what .Ndoors is still going to sell that package I bet.And now they get more money.So the only company that wins here is Ndoors.This money could have helped someone.Heck it may have helped someone you know down the road.And in truth Ndoors doesn't really win either.Cuz it's player base has alienated a children's charity.They can't be at all happy about this with there company name dangling in the media.
The people who actually wrote to Child's Play should be banned imo.But thats just me.
Sorry dude, but SOE is more despised in the genre than Ndoors will ever be.
And yet SOE doubles the players donations to Child's Play while NDoors tried 5%. Fascinating.
Fascinating indeed. While that's fantastic for SOE, their dubious award won't be going away any time soon.
It's actually the other way around. NFPs do not make a profit. Anything that is left over in the NFPs wallet needs to be placed in a tax shelter designed for NFPs, spent on capital or expenses (i.e. salary). Food Network is not an NFP. However, Feeding America is a NFP. Food Network makes a profit. Feeding America does not. Food Network informs viewers that it donates a certain amount of procedes to Feeding America. The rest of the procedes are considered gross profit.
The difference between the above and the nDoors issue is that nDoors claimed to have made certain items that are exclusive for the charitable event. When this happens and a portion of the procedes are held as profit - it makes people raise an eyebrow and wonder if Child's Play is just selling it's name to help market someone elses product. Usually when this happens, there are hidden financial incentives that are not disclosed (i.e. Kickbacks). It happens all the time.
An example of how bad it could be. Let's say I sit on a board of an NFP organization called Smile Play. Someone approaches me from a company, let's call mDoors for the sake of argument. mDoors creates a product for their item mall and wants to use my NFP as a way to drum up publicity. Some very nice free advertising. The item they are offering is an exclusive item and they expect about 2 million dollar return in their investment. For this, my NFP, Smile Play, will get a nice $100,000 payed in quarterly installments over the course of one year. Because mDoors really wants this new revenue, they need to woo me. Now, I happen to sit on an NFP board (board of electives) and I am not allowed to be paid any form of compensation. Only executives and employees are allowed to be paid in an NFP. This means that being on the board of an NFP organization is not my job. It's something that I do to network with other big wigs and we go out once every month and have a dinner and discuss issues and feedback from the executives. Meanwhile, I still have a day job. What do I do as a day job? Well, I own my own IT company. It is definately a for-profit corporation and it's also a cut throat business. mDoors knows this. So, mDoors mentions that with their increased revenue of 2 million that it will open up a budget to cover a needed 250 thousand dollar service contract that they will happily give to me. That is if I decide to allow Smile Play to endorse them. This means that I just profited 12.5% of the contributions that go directly in my wallet. This does happen and it happens more often than you think. Most NFP organization board members actively sit on several NFP boards at one time. It's a very exclusive social club for people that are usually of executive level or major stock holders of very profitable corporations.
On the March of Dimes comment - The contributions made to to the March of Dimes by the large corporations are 100%. This differs from the bake sale example you gave. If I owned my own bake shop and I made an exclusive muffin for the Girl Scouts (with their logo on it) one of the stipulations that most NFPs have is that although I can pay my employees for the time to bake the muffin and the ingredients used in the muffin - my company cannot make a profit on the muffin. This means any sales revenue of the muffin will not make company grow or end up in my pocket. There is a clear difference.
It's actually the other way around. NFPs do not make a profit. Anything that is left over in the NFPs wallet needs to be placed in a tax shelter designed for NFPs, spent on capital or expenses (i.e. salary). Food Network is not an NFP. However, Feeding America is a NFP. Food Network makes a profit. Feeding America does not. Food Network informs viewers that it donates a certain amount of procedes to Feeding America. The rest of the procedes are considered gross profit.
The difference between the above and the nDoors issue is that nDoors claimed to have made certain items that are exclusive for the charitable event. When this happens and a portion of the procedes are held as profit - it makes people raise an eyebrow and wonder if Child's Play is just selling it's name to help market someone elses product. Usually when this happens, there are hidden financial incentives that are not disclosed (i.e. Kickbacks). It happens all the time.
An example of how bad it could be. Let's say I sit on a board of an NFP organization called Smile Play. Someone approaches me from a company, let's call mDoors for the sake of argument. mDoors creates a product for their item mall and wants to use my NFP as a way to drum up publicity. Some very nice free advertising. The item they are offering is an exclusive item and they expect about 2 million dollar return in their investment. For this, my NFP, Smile Play, will get a nice $100,000 payed in quarterly installments over the course of one year. Because mDoors really wants this new revenue, they need to woo me. Now, I happen to sit on an NFP board (board of electives) and I am not allowed to be paid any form of compensation. Only executives and employees are allowed to be paid in an NFP. This means that being on the board of an NFP organization is not my job. It's something that I do to network with other big wigs and we go out once every month and have a dinner and discuss issues and feedback from the executives. Meanwhile, I still have a day job. What do I do as a day job? Well, I own my own IT company. It is definately a for-profit corporation and it's also a cut throat business. mDoors knows this. So, mDoors mentions that with their increased revenue of 2 million that it will open up a budget to cover a needed 250 thousand dollar service contract that they will happily give to me. That is if I decide to allow Smile Play to endorse them. This means that I just profited 12.5% of the contributions that go directly in my wallet. This does happen and it happens more often than you think. Most NFP organization board members actively sit on several NFP boards at one time. It's a very exclusive social club for people that are usually of executive level or major stock holders of very profitable corporations.
On the March of Dimes comment - The contributions made to to the March of Dimes by the large corporations are 100%. This differs from the bake sale example you gave. If I owned my own bake shop and I made an exclusive muffin for the Girl Scouts (with their logo on it) one of the stipulations that most NFPs have is that although I can pay my employees for the time to bake the muffin and the ingredients used in the muffin - my company cannot make a profit on the muffin. This means any sales revenue of the muffin will not make company grow or end up in my pocket. There is a clear difference.
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/9/index/451712 <--Yet no one has gone to Child's Play about Bioware...I guess because Bioware is different and they are giving all the money to them I believe.
100% of the proceeds from the auction are going to Child's Play. The big difference is that the winner of the auction is getting a giant banner (signed by each member), each collector's edition (signed by the team), lithographs, a shield, comics, and more. That must have been pretty expensive for them, yet the only money being deducted out of the auction is going to Ebay's required deductions. Bioware is actually taking a loss (Not a big one for a company, but a nicely sized one nonetheless) for all the physical items they had to have created.
No one will raise stink about Bioware because there is nothing to raise stink over. We trust the company has good intentions, and that they're not secretly taking a bit off the top for themselves.
Meanwhile, who are nDoors? One of the couple thousand cookie cutter Korean "free to play" item mall developers? From what I've seen researching this over the past couple days, people already don't trust nDoors. Not because the game is bad, but because of the random grab-bags sold in the item shop.
100% of the proceeds from the auction are going to Child's Play. The big difference is that the winner of the auction is getting a giant banner (signed by each member), each collector's edition (signed by the team), lithographs, a shield, comics, and more. That must have been pretty expensive for them, yet the only money being deducted out of the auction is going to Ebay's required deductions. Bioware is actually taking a loss (Not a big one for a company, but a nicely sized one nonetheless) for all the physical items they had to have created.
No one will raise stink about Bioware because there is nothing to raise stink over. We trust the company has good intentions, and that they're not secretly taking a bit off the top for themselves.
Meanwhile, who are nDoors? One of the couple thousand cookie cutter Korean "free to play" item mall developers? From what I've seen researching this over the past couple days, people already don't trust nDoors. Not because the game is bad, but because of the random grab-bags sold in the item shop.
Not a big loss? That is four thousand dollars...that is what it closed at...not .99 cents like it started out at...but really. No one trusts nDoors, we get that...but what about the people raising a stink over Blizzard and their fund raising? I thought Blizzard was trusted as well...then again it might be the Activision part of Bliizard people don't like.
Because.... Blizzard made the item specifically to profit from and is only using the "portion of procedes" crap as a way to get people to buy a product from them, which they will make a sizable profit from. Something that probably only took about 10-20k to develop in terms of man hours applied to their monstrous staff.
If Blizzard donated all procedes before Jan. 1st for the purchase of those items - people would be singing a completely different tune. They aren't. Also, I think they you may not understand the difference between a charitable auction and a commercial product that has a portion of it's profits is donated to charity.
There are people out there that make a good amount of money by using language to their advantage. For example, I could sell pink T-Shirts with cute random sayings on them for $10 each. Advertise that "A portion of the procedes from the purchase of these shirts will be donated to Breast Cancer Research Foundation". People tend to get all mushy about that stuff and will pick one or two up just to feel better about themselves. Sure, I will make a donation of 10 cents for every shirt that I sell. The shirt only costs me $2 each from some third world country in low quantities. So, I make $7.90 for every shirt that I sell to some sucker with soft spot. I'll even come up with some website that plays sad music and shows pictures of young girls who have died of breast cancer. What's the difference? In the case of nDoors, the cost compared to revenue is much, much less. So, it means that they make off with even more money that the pink shirt scam.
Just goes to show that some people are money grubbing bastards who'll use the guise of charity to pour money into their pockets. And other people are so incredibly short-sighted that they actually defend these greasy practices.
Thats a decidated MMo gamer right there.. Will stop even a chairty for children if it means tey wont be "uber l33t" anymore.
Sad
sad
Sick world
Of course it matters where the money comes from. I have a feeling a charity working for Children wouldn't accept money from child labor companies, or perhaps companies making landmines (which children are known to find while playing)..
For some absurd reason, I actually think Charities have a conscience and won't accept just any kind of money.
I normally avoid going through such company offers and give my money directly to the charity I want to help. This way I know they get all the money.
I suggest people simply give money directly to Child's Play :)
Exactly. Those who are saying "5% is better than nothing!" are like people who would say "well, that guy mugged you a beat the crap out of you? Don't bother going to the police because it's better than him killing you!"
That may be the case if they weren't "asked to leave the charity." As in asked to not contribute at all, which is peculiar IMO. That makes me think they were slandered in some way by this hate mail. Which resulted in the charity not wanting their contribution, if that's the case I can see why they would point out the reasons "why". Maybe the mail stated exactly what they were doing and how they were getting these donations, in turn they (the charity) weren't happy about that.
Yeah.. but even Blizz donated 50% of the revenue for these items. To me, 50% of the procedes does show good intention. 5% is simply an attempt to gain free advertising and a false incentive for players to actually buy the items.
It was 50% off ONE of the pets and it was the pet that was the worst of the two. And the 50% to charity was only for a month or two. The reason why the other pet was better because it killed "critters" for you which is an achievement (kill 30 specific critters). Blizzard got a lot of flack over it as well.
First off I wish to defend Child's Play's decision to remove AO NDoors from advertising for their charity after receiving bad emails from AO's own player base. Charities are run off of GOOD word of mouth. They do not have the luxury of having a few shakey deals especially publically. Registered charities jump through hoops to get their charities approved and their charity number. They then seek the holy grail of which all charities dream of for sustainability: A Large Well Known Corporate Sponsor. They then must keep their noses clean to maintain their corporate sponsors and their official charity status. Child's Play is an organization that seeks to bring games to children stuck in hospital convalescing over long periods of time. Many of these children will never be able to play outside. But just as games bring enjoyment to us here on this forum, so do they help to bring a smile, a welcome distraction and a sense of normalicy to children who have lesser circumstances then most.
Individual donations account for very little of the operating costs for any charity. It is in fact big business that keeps them going. Why would a business wish to support a charity? Well it is good advertising, for BOTH the charity and the company. It is also a tax write off. It improves your corporate image. It improves corporate morale giving the employees a rewarding challenge to fundraising drives and the feeling of inclusiveness. And maybe those big ol'boys sitting at the executive desks have a kid or a niece who benefited from the charity and they wish to give back. What ever the reasons... it is money that is given to help others.
You can say that the 5% was too little an amount, but this was most likely AO's first attempt to donate to charity and were being conservative either worried they would loose profit or uncertain how it would all work out. Sometimes going too big can be even more harmful as what if their servers couldn't handle the transactions and crashed or if they lost too much money and were unable to make good on their promises. Even baby steps are steps in the right direction. Sony and BLizzard are much large companies that have done other charitable drives and know the ropes.
What was the real outcome of all of this... Well the BEST one was that Child's Play is in the news, is being spoken of, and is now known by all of you. The worst is that AO/NDoors may likely never attempt to partner on another charitable drive.
PS I work as a nurse and have seen many charities at work, from the individual celebrity that walks in to cheer up the patients, to the giant McDonalds Play room, and even the grannies that knit little hats for the premies in NICU. There is always a place for people to give, no matter how great or small. And no matter the size of the contribution we are always thankful, as it wouldn't happen without the effort.
again you give for the sake of giving not the tax break and whats more is they would profit even more off of all of it and even get the tax break on top of it
2 problems:
1) Gave away end game equipment.
2) It looks too much like gambling.
An F2P game giving to charity.......... hmm.
Isn't the purpose of F2P to keep an unprofitable game, profitable?
I found this interesting response, apparently from Child's Play, in regards to Ndoors donations in the Atlantica Online forum:
"To summarize, the emails we received from players generally said that
they felt ripped off, that the item had been misrepresented, and that
Child's Play should have done better research into to program before
becoming involved. Some people were not aware that only $2.00 from
the $40.00 purchase was being donated, and they were unhappy upon
finding out.
As a gamers' charity, we felt it was important to assure this group
that their concerns were heard, and we could not in good conscience
accept the donation under these circumstances. In the future, should
we work with Ndoors again, we will strive for a greater level of
disclosure before starting any fund raising programs with them."
Child's Play didn't flat out refuse Ndoors from donating again but they demanded "Greater Level of Discloure". It seemed there were something Ndoors didn't want to disclose and you don't need to be a rocket scientist to tell they don't want to tell us the odds of the gamble boxes so they would rather choose another charity instead of pursuing Child's Play.
This is the original thread from the Atlantica forum. It is frozen now, but still accessible.
http://atlantica.ndoorsgames.com/center/ATForum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=32506&start=101
daltanis has a good point on that forum
That's the essence of the fraud. In many similar abuses of the concept of charity, you'll see some sentence like, "A portion of the proceeds will be donated to charity." What proportion will be donated is usually left unstated, or stated only in fine print. Most people would assume that a fairly substantial proportion will be donated, but it's usually a very small proportion.
There's a broader ethical problem here than one instance of such an abuse. The objection that because of the complaints, Child's Play loses the donation they would have received misses that broader ethical problem. How little can a company get away with donating, and still claim the aegis of charity? If the limit isn't 5%, is it 1%? 0.01%? One cent out of all proceeds? And how much do the charities have to bow and scrape to corporations for those donations?
It's entirely reasonable to believe that Child's Play, or other charities, are better off receiving only direct donations from individuals, than crumbs from corporations.
That's the essence of the fraud. In many similar abuses of the concept of charity, you'll see some sentence like, "A portion of the proceeds will be donated to charity." What proportion will be donated is usually left unstated, or stated only in fine print. Most people would assume that a fairly substantial proportion will be donated, but it's usually a very small proportion.
There's a broader ethical problem here than one instance of such an abuse. The objection that because of the complaints, Child's Play loses the donation they would have received misses that broader ethical problem. How little can a company get away with donating, and still claim the aegis of charity? If the limit isn't 5%, is it 1%? 0.01%? One cent out of all proceeds? And how much do the charities have to bow and scrape to corporations for those donations?
It's entirely reasonable to believe that Child's Play, or other charities, are better off receiving only direct donations from individuals, than crumbs from corporations.
5%, 0.01% or 200% are all acceptable donations as long as they are clearly specified. I don't think charities will turn down a 0.01% donation of gross revenue generated from a product if the details of the product is 100% revealed.
Anyway, Ndoors did tell the "portion of the proceeds" they planned to donate to Child's Play was 5% in their forum although they didn't want to add that clarification to the descriptions of the products and they walked away from the donation after getting the demand for disclosure from Child's Play.