Originally posted by Infalible

Atari PUBLISHED Eve Online. It was a limited distribution publication. I believe that limited run ran out a while ago now ;-) Eve Online is published via the Eve website - exclusively since the publication run ran out - and has been for over 4 years now.

 I hope that CCP stays away from Atari when they finally get around to releasing their WoD MMO, though the fact that Atari sold off their European distribution arm to Namco-Bandai gives me hope.

Originally posted by Infalible

Atari PUBLISHED Eve Online. It was a limited distribution publication. I believe that limited run ran out a while ago now ;-) Eve Online is published via the Eve website - exclusively since the publication run ran out - and has been for over 4 years now.

Nope, they still do.  That box set I linked (from Amazon) only came out last year.

It is also on the Atari store (with the Atari logo plastered on it).  http://www.atari.com/search/node/eve

Downloading it directly from CCP is simply an option.

Originally posted by grapevine

 

 

Nope, they still do.  That box set I linked (from Amazon) only came out last year.

 

It is also on the Atari store (with the Atari logo plastered on it).  http://www.atari.com/search/node/eve

 

Downloading it directly from CCP is simply an option.

 I find that troubling for the WoD MMO in progress; not that Atari can screw with the game mechanics and such directly, but I would hate to see STO type marketing disasters being associated with CCP.

I second the motion.

Originally posted by Infalible

Originally posted by grapevine

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by mellobri

Originally posted by Dinendae

Originally posted by raistalin69

 

 i agree with you, but i look at atari with skeptiscism. as you said cryptic sold them on this, but atari beleived them. to me its common sense that what cryptic was selling was not reality. therefore i dont trust atari.i agree they got sold a bill of goods from cryptic, but they signed the cheque. i dont trust them to make good decisions in the future. i will say tha i will never buy another cryptic product again, with atari, i might give them a chance in the future if i heard good things about th product.

 I have to give Atari the benefit of the doubt on this one issue, they just didn't know better. Remember that Atari had no experience at all in the MMO market; instead they had relied on Turbine to actually produce DDO. Along comes Cryptic, a company that successfully broke out of the fantasy/scifi mode that MMOs had been in. Additionally with CoH and CoV Cryptic was able to bring a bit of innovation to MMOs. So Cryptic gives them their line about how they have developed a proprietary, recyclable MMO engine, and they can use it to do something no one else has managed to do so far; mass-produce MMOs.

It really must have looked like an incredible opportunity to Atari: DDO was failing miserably and was soon to head towards an uncertain hybrid free to play model, Atari was struggling to restructure itself out of a failing business model, and Cryptic offers them an opportunity to not only increase revenue, but to continue generating revenues from sold copies every month. Not only that, but they also had Cryptic stating that they were certain they could produce MMOs every 18 - 24 months; Atari had visions of producing MMOs for all of their major titles (we know from their own reports that Cryptic was working on a D&D based MMO for them, before Hasbro launched its lawsuit to revoke the license).

In the end, Atari made a bad call in trusting the b.s. that Emmert and Needham were pushing. So by all means, be skeptical about their decision making; just don't blame them for what was clearly Cryptic's failing, like so many others do.

 Ever hear of a game called 'Horizons?'  Probably not, since it was so terrible, but Atari DOES have experience in the MMO market.  Maybe what you meant was 'success in the MMO market...' Hello Kitty is one of their best selling titles, and Neverwinter Nights, which promised revolutionary game play, was mediocre at best.  If Atari was naive in this venture, it was not due to lack of experience in mediocrity.  Now, they have entered into deals with CCP, presumably to promote EvE, but my suspicion is they will have a lot to do with Dust 514, as well; we'll see what goes on there.

If CCP has anything to do with Atari I will lose all respect for them lol. In any case I will say this once again, the biggest issue with Atari and MMO's is that they have a 12-24 month development cycle plan for any MMO they make. 

Both CO and STO were done in less than 24 months. Both suffered from the exact same issues which stemmed from lack of development time. They basically through the game together and sent it out the door. 

Had either game received the development time they sorely needed things may have worked out a lot better in the end. Byt they didn't and the forums are filled with complaints about how shallow and generic both games are, another big complaint.... severe lack of content and it all stems from such a short development period. 

 

Atari publish EVE Online.  Their name is on the box, at leat in the EU.  That's been the case for at least over a year.

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/images/B001P3099I/ref=dp_image_z_0?ie=UTF8&n=300703&s=videogames

Atari PUBLISHED Eve Online. It was a limited distribution publication. I believe that limited run ran out a while ago now ;-) Eve Online is published via the Eve website - exclusively since the publication run ran out - and has been for over 4 years now.

Atari publishes the box copies, and so they are tied to CCP, which is a heavy advertiser here, and so the dance card is set and this explains a lot of what goes on around these parts. ; )

I'm a lifer and I dont want a refund. However, I am taking  a break from the game until it reaches the point it should have been at launch, which will hopefully be around the end of the year.

Nagus I think it boils down to a few things . From my stand point I see people strung along and frustrated by influx of content that piles bug upon bug into the game. Cryptics adamant refusal to address Klingon content , but paying lip service by pointing to how much they' ve really done while in the process actually doubling Federation content. Thereby taking a two faction game and killing it for all intensive purposes. Absolutely ignoring PvP , content and balance and complicating it by introducing new varibles ( refits ), then throwing that balance further out of whack and again ingnoring Klingons.

 Cryptic is constantly asking for patients and understanding and continually delivering a subpar product. The worst part of it all , is they are dillusional about the level of competence they have. Read the state of the game ( http://startrekonline.com/node/1966 )  then actually look at the game . This game is heading as fast as it can to F2P long before the lifers get their moneys worth .  They'll more then likely copy Turbines model and apply it. I'm certain sales are way down even at $19.99.  

Originally posted by AG-Vuk

Nagus I think it boils down to a few things . From my stand point I see people strung along and frustrated by influx of content that piles bug upon bug into the game. Cryptics adamant refusal to address Klingon content , but paying lip service by pointing to how much they' ve really done while in the process actually doubling Federation content. Thereby taking a two faction game and killing it for all intensive purposes. Absolutely ignoring PvP , content and balance and complicating it by introducing new varibles ( refits ), then throwing that balance further out of whack and again ingnoring Klingons.

 Cryptic is constantly asking for patients and understanding and continually delivering a subpar product. The worst part of it all , is they are dillusional about the level of competence they have. Read the state of the game ( http://startrekonline.com/node/1966 )  then actually look at the game . This game is heading as fast as it can to F2P long before the lifers get their monies worth .  They'll more then likely copy Turbines model and apply it. I'm certain sales are way down even at $19.99.  

First Cryptic claimed the 45 day patch would fix everything wrong with the game, then it was Season 1, then Season 2 and now it Season 3 :(

Originally posted by Jounar

 

First Cryptic claimed the 45 day patch would fix everything wrong with the game, then it was Season 1, then Season 2 and now it Season 3 :(

 To be fair, it was the fans who made that 45 day patch to be more than it was supposed to be; Cryptic stated early on that it was supposed to concentrate mainly on adding genesis content to the Klingon side, but the players were the ones who blew it up to be more than it was supposed to be.

Originally posted by Dinendae

Originally posted by Jounar

 

First Cryptic claimed the 45 day patch would fix everything wrong with the game, then it was Season 1, then Season 2 and now it Season 3 :(

 To be fair, it was the fans who made that 45 day patch to be more than it was supposed to be; Cryptic stated early on that it was supposed to concentrate mainly on adding genesis content to the Klingon side, but the players were the ones who blew it up to be more than it was supposed to be.

 To be fair to Craptic the season 2 content was to be mostly about the Klingons.  The point being Craptic has completely lost any credibility . I as much told Jackalope he'd lost credibility on the Klingons side and asked why he was there, basically .  I believe he posted three or four more times and hasn't been heard from since. Everytime someone opens their mouth at Craptic they lose more and more subs , due to credibility . The only interest they currently have is how do we twist cannon to extract more cash from paying subs. ex : Refits, the ships poll ( then taking those most popular models and selling them on C-Store )

Originally posted by AG-Vuk

 

 To be fair to Craptic the season 2 content was to be mostly about the Klingons.  The point being Craptic has completely lost any credibility . I as much told Jackalope he'd lost credibility on the Klingons side and asked why he was there, basically .  I believe he posted three or four more times and hasn't been heard from since. Everytime someone opens their mouth at Craptic they lose more and more subs , due to credibility . The only interest they currently have is how do we twist cannon to extract more cash from paying subs. ex : Refits, the ships poll ( then taking those most popular models and selling them on C-Store )

 I never said they actually delivered on the 45 day patch promise for the Klingons, I just said that the fans made the 45 day patch out to be more than what it was supposed to be; just as with Season 1, Season 2, and I'm guessing Season 3.

Originally posted by Dinendae

Originally posted by AG-Vuk

 

 To be fair to Craptic the season 2 content was to be mostly about the Klingons.  The point being Craptic has completely lost any credibility . I as much told Jackalope he'd lost credibility on the Klingons side and asked why he was there, basically .  I believe he posted three or four more times and hasn't been heard from since. Everytime someone opens their mouth at Craptic they lose more and more subs , due to credibility . The only interest they currently have is how do we twist cannon to extract more cash from paying subs. ex : Refits, the ships poll ( then taking those most popular models and selling them on C-Store )

 I never said they actually delivered on the 45 day patch promise for the Klingons, I just said that the fans made the 45 day patch out to be more than what it was supposed to be; just as with Season 1, Season 2, and I'm guessing Season 3.

 Yes, what you have said about the 45 day patch is true.  It was the STO forum posters that pretty much invented the idea that it was going to be a "miracle patch".  When it wasnt, there was much chaos.

Season 2 offered 8 klingon missions for Klingon players.  Come on Cryptic... at least offer new missions in the double digets!

I remember during beta before the game launched those of us that have played LotRO said Klingons were basically just a slightly improved version of Monster Play, but of course the devs said that wasn't the case and fanbots didn't want to hear the comparison.  6 months later, it still doesn't sound all that different.

Originally posted by Dinendae

Originally posted by Jounar

 

First Cryptic claimed the 45 day patch would fix everything wrong with the game, then it was Season 1, then Season 2 and now it Season 3 :(

 To be fair, it was the fans who made that 45 day patch to be more than it was supposed to be; Cryptic stated early on that it was supposed to concentrate mainly on adding genesis content to the Klingon side, but the players were the ones who blew it up to be more than it was supposed to be.

 I don't know about that.  I seem to remember beta testers saying the game wasn't ready for launch with a big reason being woefully light on content, and Jackalope assuring us the 45 day patch would add lots of content.

Originally posted by Darth_Osor

Originally posted by Dinendae

Originally posted by Jounar

 

First Cryptic claimed the 45 day patch would fix everything wrong with the game, then it was Season 1, then Season 2 and now it Season 3 :(

 To be fair, it was the fans who made that 45 day patch to be more than it was supposed to be; Cryptic stated early on that it was supposed to concentrate mainly on adding genesis content to the Klingon side, but the players were the ones who blew it up to be more than it was supposed to be.

 I don't know about that.  I seem to remember beta testers saying the game wasn't ready for launch with a big reason being woefully light on content, and Jackalope assuring us the 45 day patch would add lots of content.

 does it matter weather it was cryptic or the fans making the 45 day patch out to be a "miracle"?

isnt the real point that within 2 or 3 weeks of launch things got so bad that everyone felt the game needed a "miracle patch"

worst part is that people are still waiting for the "miracle patch" 6 months later.... damn thats patience.

Originally posted by raistalin69

Originally posted by Darth_Osor

Originally posted by Dinendae

Originally posted by Jounar

 

First Cryptic claimed the 45 day patch would fix everything wrong with the game, then it was Season 1, then Season 2 and now it Season 3 :(

 To be fair, it was the fans who made that 45 day patch to be more than it was supposed to be; Cryptic stated early on that it was supposed to concentrate mainly on adding genesis content to the Klingon side, but the players were the ones who blew it up to be more than it was supposed to be.

 I don't know about that.  I seem to remember beta testers saying the game wasn't ready for launch with a big reason being woefully light on content, and Jackalope assuring us the 45 day patch would add lots of content.

 does it matter weather it was cryptic or the fans making the 45 day patch out to be a "miracle"?

isnt the real point that within 2 or 3 weeks of launch things got so bad that everyone felt the game needed a "miracle patch"

worst part is that people are still waiting for the "miracle patch" 6 months later.... damn thats patience.

 

 

 

 

I remember it as Osor said , and they aren't patient . They are called Lifers ( it's like a prison sentence without any hope of entertainment. ) , they have nothing better to do then sit and hope they can get more people to play . The majority of people left , I suspect are long termers are either life time subs or at this point one year subscribers. You'll get the occasional person that tries it and hangs for a month or two , since that's about all the average person can tolerate of repetative content. Go on the forums and take a look at any thread and you'll see almost nothing , but blue names. The occasional white is usually a one year or a lifer who is too embrassed to acknowledge it.

 

 

 

Originally posted by Darth_Osor

Originally posted by Dinendae

Originally posted by Jounar

 

First Cryptic claimed the 45 day patch would fix everything wrong with the game, then it was Season 1, then Season 2 and now it Season 3 :(

 To be fair, it was the fans who made that 45 day patch to be more than it was supposed to be; Cryptic stated early on that it was supposed to concentrate mainly on adding genesis content to the Klingon side, but the players were the ones who blew it up to be more than it was supposed to be.

 I don't know about that.  I seem to remember beta testers saying the game wasn't ready for launch with a big reason being woefully light on content, and Jackalope assuring us the 45 day patch would add lots of content.

 That's the problem, you're going by what Jack said; it can generally be safely assumed that the man doesn't know what the heck he is talking about. After all, Jack also said that the Klingons had tons of content and were the ones he was having the most fun playing. I was going by the Daniel Stahl podcast (the one on December 13) that stated the 45 day patch would add in Genesis content for the Klingons, because they needed time to rework the Genesis system to create missions more appropriate for the Klingons (i.e. they wanted the missions to all be combat focused).

Originally posted by Dinendae

Originally posted by Darth_Osor

Originally posted by Dinendae

Originally posted by Jounar

 

First Cryptic claimed the 45 day patch would fix everything wrong with the game, then it was Season 1, then Season 2 and now it Season 3 :(

 To be fair, it was the fans who made that 45 day patch to be more than it was supposed to be; Cryptic stated early on that it was supposed to concentrate mainly on adding genesis content to the Klingon side, but the players were the ones who blew it up to be more than it was supposed to be.

 I don't know about that.  I seem to remember beta testers saying the game wasn't ready for launch with a big reason being woefully light on content, and Jackalope assuring us the 45 day patch would add lots of content.

 That's the problem, you're going by what Jack said; it can generally be safely assumed that the man doesn't know what the heck he is talking about. After all, Jack also said that the Klingons had tons of content and were the ones he was having the most fun playing. I was going by the Daniel Stahl podcast (the one on December 13) that stated the 45 day patch would add in Genesis content for the Klingons, because they needed time to rework the Genesis system to create missions more appropriate for the Klingons (i.e. they wanted the missions to all be combat focused).

Cryptic have also been caught a good few times editing or deleting thier statements so anything they say can be taken with a grain of salt.

Originally posted by Dinendae

Originally posted by Darth_Osor

Originally posted by Dinendae

Originally posted by Jounar

 

First Cryptic claimed the 45 day patch would fix everything wrong with the game, then it was Season 1, then Season 2 and now it Season 3 :(

 To be fair, it was the fans who made that 45 day patch to be more than it was supposed to be; Cryptic stated early on that it was supposed to concentrate mainly on adding genesis content to the Klingon side, but the players were the ones who blew it up to be more than it was supposed to be.

 I don't know about that.  I seem to remember beta testers saying the game wasn't ready for launch with a big reason being woefully light on content, and Jackalope assuring us the 45 day patch would add lots of content.

 That's the problem, you're going by what Jack said; it can generally be safely assumed that the man doesn't know what the heck he is talking about. After all, Jack also said that the Klingons had tons of content and were the ones he was having the most fun playing. I was going by the Daniel Stahl podcast (the one on December 13) that stated the 45 day patch would add in Genesis content for the Klingons, because they needed time to rework the Genesis system to create missions more appropriate for the Klingons (i.e. they wanted the missions to all be combat focused).

 ...except you said the *fans* made the 45 day patch out to be more than was promised.  True, anyone that played a MMO before knew there was no way they were going to magically crap out enough content in 45 days to fill in that black hole of a game, but that doesn't change the fact they were told it was going to be big, and I'm sure quite a few people that bought STO were first time MMO players and didn't know better.

Originally posted by Darth_Osor

 

 ...except you said the *fans* made the 45 day patch out to be more than was promised.  True, anyone that played a MMO before knew there was no way they were going to magically crap out enough content in 45 days to fill in that black hole of a game, but that doesn't change the fact they were told it was going to be big, and I'm sure quite a few people that bought STO were first time MMO players and didn't know better.

   The fans did make it out to be more than it was supposed to be, i.e. the 'miracle patch,' and not Cryptic. In fact that was something I posted to Cryptic in the beta forums about, when open beta was going and people got a general sense of how lacking the game was going to be; I posted to the devs that they need to start posting more about what they expected the 45 day patch to be and not let the fans make it out to be more than it was, otherwise people were going to get massively disappointed and leave in droves when the patch didn't do everything the fans were claiming it would. Ironically, the thing didn't even do what Cryptic was claiming it would do, but that's a different issue.

   As for not knowing better, a lot of people who had experience with MMOs believed it as well; remember Cryptic was selling the idea that they had tons of content that was nearly finished, but that they needed the 45 days to polish it up and test it internally first. Now we know that was complete b.s., but at the time no one really knew how much (or little in this case) Cryptic had managed to get done. It helped Cryptic's claims that there were features that had only been in game for just the last couple of weeks of beta (such as the Klingon 'content'), and some things we didn't see until launch. It seemed reasonable that there might have been more waiting to get finished. As I said, we know that was a complete lie now, but it was within the realm of possibility until we actually saw how sparse that 45 day patch was.

I am surprised, or maybe not, that people are still discussing the "45 day patch" when that was something like 155 days ago. ;)

Originally posted by Gruug

I am surprised, or maybe not, that people are still discussing the "45 day patch" when that was something like 155 days ago. ;)

 Eh, I just try to be fair in my criticisms; in this case while Cryptic didn't make good on what the patch was supposed to have, it was the fans who turned it into some kind of supposed miracle patch that would fix all of STO's woes. Even factoring in marketing spin and hype, Cryptic didn't take things that far. History repeated itself with Season 1 and Season 2 as well: Cryptic made promises (some they kept, some they didn't), but the fans made each one out to be far more than actually advertised.

Originally posted by Dinendae

Originally posted by Gruug

I am surprised, or maybe not, that people are still discussing the "45 day patch" when that was something like 155 days ago. ;)

 Eh, I just try to be fair in my criticisms; in this case while Cryptic didn't make good on what the patch was supposed to have, it was the fans who turned it into some kind of supposed miracle patch that would fix all of STO's woes. Even factoring in marketing spin and hype, Cryptic didn't take things that far. History repeated itself with Season 1 and Season 2 as well: Cryptic made promises (some they kept, some they didn't), but the fans made each one out to be far more than actually advertised.

I agree with that. When the Ship Interiors hit Tribble (the test server) I was extremely underwhelmed thinking "seriously? is this all? are they even going to put functionality into it?" and then it was released pretty much in the same condition it already was in on the test server.

Yet everyone on the forums made it out to sound like Interiors would fix a lot of the problems with the gameplay.. it didn't.. and they only put ship interiors in because the original Alpha screenshots showed fully explorable interiors of an Akira class ship- so like many others we were mislead into thinking Cryptic was going to implement that- but the fans ultimately made it sound like being able to walk around on your ship was somehow going to fix the game.

Season 2 is a joke, the non-combat gameplay is just a broken grind, the interiors are non-functional, the only thing it added to the game was some late end game stuff that 90% of the players won't ever likely experience- it sucks. And Klingon PvE is still crap. So long as Cryptic are focused on Story Driven content the miracle patch will never come.. they seem so certain that players want the tedious grind- no.. that's the problem with the game- there's too much grind, and they just keep adding more ways to grind- all the patches have done is added more grind to the game. (season 2 added those new badges for example.. so once you hit the level 51 cap.. then you've got to grind those fucking badges!).

Originally posted by Mr_Cyberpunk

 

I agree with that. When the Ship Interiors hit Tribble (the test server) I was extremely underwhelmed thinking "seriously? is this all? are they even going to put functionality into it?" and then it was released pretty much in the same condition it already was in on the test server.

Yet everyone on the forums made it out to sound like Interiors would fix a lot of the problems with the gameplay.. it didn't.. and they only put ship interiors in because the original Alpha screenshots showed fully explorable interiors of an Akira class ship- so like many others we were mislead into thinking Cryptic was going to implement that- but the fans ultimately made it sound like being able to walk around on your ship was somehow going to fix the game.

Season 2 is a joke, the non-combat gameplay is just a broken grind, the interiors are non-functional, the only thing it added to the game was some late end game stuff that 90% of the players won't ever likely experience- it sucks. And Klingon PvE is still crap. So long as Cryptic are focused on Story Driven content the miracle patch will never come.. they seem so certain that players want the tedious grind- no.. that's the problem with the game- there's too much grind, and they just keep adding more ways to grind- all the patches have done is added more grind to the game. (season 2 added those new badges for example.. so once you hit the level 51 cap.. then you've got to grind those fucking badges!).

 wow... who in there right mind would think functional interiors was a fix for sto. i understand cRIPtic doing it, as the fans asked for it... but honestly. you would have to be completely delusional to think they would fix anything. nice, but unless there was missions onboard your own ship (like there was in every tv series) whats the point?

maybe missions on a persons own ship is a longer range goal of cryptics, buyt there are so many other parts of the game that desperately need attention. cRIPtic is obviously either not capable or not interested in making a decent mmo. how the big boss' at atari can tolerate a management team that decides to add terrtiatary fluff to a game that has no substance is shocking. no wonder they are getting sued and losing money.

as a manager at a mmo studio.. didnt anyone ask themselves...

"are we going to lose more subscribers if we work on ship interiors and ignore content / overhauling the exploration and crafting  systems.....  or  should we work on content and major game flaws first?"

we all know which one they chose.

Originally posted by raistalin69

 

 wow... who in there right mind would think functional interiors was a fix for sto. i understand cRIPtic doing it, as the fans asked for it... but honestly. you would have to be completely delusional to think they would fix anything. nice, but unless there was missions onboard your own ship (like there was in every tv series) whats the point?

 What gets me is that cryptic always was upfront that ship interiors were going to be basically cosmetic only; how anyone could read more into that is beyond me.